01-11-2002 05:40									#1
	How do we enforce not playing ahead? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

What is to keep people from playing ahead?

Example one: one team makes contact with another and establishes an embassy in the capitol. While the sav is with someone else, someone on that team loads the save and spends money to investigate a city, then closes the game and reloads to look at a different city.

Example two: two teams are at war. One team first checks to see if a unit will be sucessful by trying it first before actually using it as a sav.

Example three: Humans make errors. Say a galley was accidently moved to the wrong tile. The sav gets dumped and loaded again so the mistake doesn't happen.

What are we to do?

	01-11-2002 05:46									#2
	Put an end to popups!

There definately is concern of this.

I would hope that, all joking aside, this game would be among friends and wouldnt' devolve into massive cheating. But I'm not sure if there is anything more we can do than just trust and self police the groups.

	01-11-2002 05:59									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

as long as we keep the teams small enough, the honor code will be sufficient.

	01-11-2002 06:02									#4
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

It's the same situation with the Civ 3 demo game... we just have to trust that people know what they're doing. If not, they're ruining the fun of the game.

	02-11-2002 03:11									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Trust and Honor.

	02-11-2002 07:14									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I think the only way the honor system will work is if the ultimate goal of these initial Multiplayer PTW-DGs is to learn what the Multi-site game will be like.

If everyone is out there to win, cheating will happen (its human nature).
If everyone is out there to prepare for the Multi-site game, it won't happen (as much, its human nature).

	02-11-2002 20:23									#7
	Suffering from ads?

If there's a teams game first, which there needs to be for practice, then the teams game will be practice for the multisite.

In other words, the only thing to do is hope everyone is honest.

	02-11-2002 20:45									#8
	playing ahead Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

maybe now, or later as the teams start to solidify, we create a thread(s) to have every team or every team member declare that "I will not cheat" and sign on the dotted line.

Granted its a formality in one sense, but it insure that everyone knows the game or reinforces that knowledge. Teams could even go so far as to declare that a team member who was found to have cheated can be removed from the game and that the team will not act on any knowledge accidentally divulged.

In the case of embassies, I think that a formal request should be made to establish one anyway. If one team is wary of another, they should be able to deny them the right to establish one. But this may be above and beyond.

	02-11-2002 21:05									#9
	Suffering from ads?

Civilization is this, run against the human nature, sometimes. I trust you, guys, and I hope you trust me.
Call me naïf, if you want...

	04-11-2002 10:18									#10
	If your going to cheat, might as well play single player. Suffering from ads?

Then noone cares.

	06-11-2002 10:03									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

There is no real way for us to keep people from cheating. So I guess we will have to go with honesty.

	06-11-2002 14:18									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I think we just have to trust the teams themselves to play fair and to stop their members cheating.

	06-11-2002 17:50									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yes, if someone is dead set of cheating there will be no stopping him/her.

OTOH, it would be nice to have some moderate deterrent just to "keep honest people honest" (not that I have any brilliant ideas about how to do this).

	06-11-2002 17:55									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well I suppose each team polices their own. Anyone found cheating is either removed from the team or not allowed a position of responsibility. Any team found cheating is removed from the game etc...

	06-11-2002 18:23									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Perhaps we could get Markg on this. If someone if proven to be cheating, he not only gets removed from the game, but he gets banned from the forums altogether for a period of time determind by Markg. Make the punishment EXCEED the crime.

	06-11-2002 18:29									#16
	Put an end to popups!

The crime is not committed on the site, so MarkG should decline (out of juridiction).

	07-11-2002 07:03									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We have to trust people. It's like playing that trust game where you fall back and they catch you, but when you turn around and look at them you only see their username, flag, um...pic ( :| )?, location.

When I make mistakes no matter how minor (oops, worker's off route) to how major (oops, I just nuked my capital!) I never reload a previous game. Like once the Romans demanded some piddly amount of less than 20 gold and a very obselete tech and I refused, they declared war, they pounded me right into the ground very quickly. Lesson: Check to see if it's worth a war where a can of whoop is opened on you before you kindly decline the demand. But the relevant lesson is, I didn't reload, I learned my lesson and tried to see if I could hang on. If you make a mistake deal with it, don't cheat. RL rulers make RL mistakes all the **** time, and they can't just reload a save of the world yesterday...