08-11-2002 04:30									#31
	Unknown Crash Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

http://www.disorganized-mayhem.com/Lincoln of the Americans, 1370 AD.SAV

Run the turn, game crashes part-way through the turn resolution. Prior to the 1.04f patch it would just hang.


This is the turn prior:

http://www.disorganized-mayhem.com/Lincoln of the Americans, 1365 AD.SAV

Does the game crash for anyone else ... ?

	09-11-2002 01:53									#32
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I have had it crash whenever a computer controled Civ gets wiped out.

Oh yeah, other times too for no aparent reason.

	09-11-2002 02:47									#33
	Remove this text

So what the ____ does "our internal deadline is ASAP" mean?

How about an update? or at least a general estimate as to when we can expect an update. Some of us are getting itchy fingers to return the darn thing.

	09-11-2002 03:30									#34
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Gotta figure on a few weeks of testing before it gets released even if it was done.

	09-11-2002 03:37									#35
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I agree -- I'm just wondering about December versus June.

I don't think it would be too much trouble to have an update every so often saying: Substance of Patch done, now going through QA. Something like that. I'd make me feel like checking back to the boards every day or so was at least giving me some new information.

That it isn't just an exercise in futility.

	09-11-2002 08:50									#36
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I agree Newt.

Everyday that goes by I get more mad about this.

Come Dec. I won't even want to play it because of MMO3.

Come Feb. I won't want to play ether because of Star Wars Galaxys.

I bought this expansion to give me something to do till then. Should never have to buy a game and "wish it worked".

Absolutely rediculals

	09-11-2002 10:22									#37
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Flesh Reaver, you speak the truth. Having bought a copy for myself and one for my Dad (I'm 30 and live outside the home), I feel like I've been screwed twice. It pains me that the darn thing doesn't work. It totally pisses me off that I've only heard silence from the official channels of Firaxis.

Yes, that's right silence. A comment in an online chat doesn't cut it for me. Especially when its purposefully designed to be as vague and ambiguous as possible. I registered PTW, how about an email saying we are sorry we released a crappy game. We are working to improve it. We will update in one week with our progress. We hope to have the patch to you ASAP, but will let you know each week what our progress is.

But no, Firaxis figures we are already on the hook, so why bother with any attempt at reasonably customer relations.

	09-11-2002 11:36									#38
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect Keep up the good work firaxis!

HAHAH! yeah right...

	09-11-2002 13:24									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Flesh Reaver I agree Newt. Everyday that goes by I get more mad about this. Come Dec. I won't even want to play it because of MMO3. Come Feb. I won't want to play ether because of Star Wars Galaxys. I bought this expansion to give me something to do till then. Should never have to buy a game and "wish it worked". Absolutely rediculals

Take it back.

Bye.

	09-11-2002 13:41									#40
	Increase Your PM Length

NotyouEither,

I bought it at EB. They only let you have store credit anyway (which you must use that day) and as there is nothing I want until MOO3 comes out, I am screwed.

Plus, I think you only have 7 days to return. Screwed again.

BOTTOM LINE.... PTW is a hoax, a fraud, a joke, a peice of garbage that has no right being for sale in it's current condition.

Argue all you like on it's behalf Either, wiser people know better. But until I can use the product I bought as it was advertised I will continue to ***** about it on these boards, other Civ boards, and to infrograms via e-mail.

I can only pray they get sued for this.

	09-11-2002 13:45									#41
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You have 90 days to send it back to Infogrames, I think.

	09-11-2002 13:51									#42
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Flesh Reaver BOTTOM LINE.... PTW is a hoax, a fraud, a joke, a peice of garbage that has no right being for sale in it's current condition.

It's another program that needs patching. Big surprise.

Yes, it needs improvements. But there was no guarantee that you would like it out of the box. Your milage may vary, as will everyone elses.

Fact is, if you are not blocked by your ISP, if you are capable of following advise, if you find people near you, if you are not an Alpha pirate... it will work.

	09-11-2002 18:00									#43
	Its what the civ community really needs Tired of ads?

The idea is great ....
The rules (in the main) appear to be fine ....
The gamemodes, options and interfaces are fine ....

But multiplayer > 2 players just breaks on implementation :/

I have had a few 3 player games, only to have the 3rd player disconnect on about the 20th-40th turn(im sure its not their fault).

Basically, with 2 players the only road to success is constant war, which isnt entirely what civilisation is about.

So, please firaxis, fix multiplyer ... i feel like a guinea pig

	10-11-2002 00:34									#44
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quote: So far I haven't heard of any single player issues, editor or LAN/PBEM/Hotseat issues so right now we're focused on internet performance....

Well, I hope they look at more than just internet play for the next patch because they're a lot of problems with Hotseat as well. And that's what I bought the game for!!

	10-11-2002 10:57									#45
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quote: So far I haven't heard of any single player issues, editor or LAN/PBEM/Hotseat issues so right now we're focused on internet performance....

Actually single player has some buggy elements as well (I think) the "build previous built unit" option doesnt seem to work, and I have seen other thread that shared the same experience as I have. So hoepfully firaxis doesnt just patch internet play.

quote: Also, I have one theory with those "warez PtW versions". Those who try using them usually don't have patch installed (since probably there is still not 1.04 no-cd fix to download).

No not really. I own a legit copy of ptw, but I tried to help my friend to install a game and patch a no-cd fix, We were surprised to find 1.04 no-cd fixes already all around the web. But yes most of the problems and crashes reported by people over here strangely coincides with problem my friend had when we tried to play I on the otherhand didn't experience that much trouble.

	10-11-2002 16:40									#46
	Admittedly... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have preordered PTW, and am using warez version of 1.04f to tide me over, however i find my copy seems to be one of the most stable going around ... like i host with 4 players, and 4 players play (for a while anyway).

	11-11-2002 00:21									#47
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Yeah the key words are "for a while anyway"

Notyoueither,

I have played MP games using the advice you offered, and it runs great without a hitch (max 3 human players though). However, it never fails to crash at some point.

So, I'm sticking with my opinion that the MP game is unplayable, and they have no right selling this game in it's current condition.

	11-11-2002 05:40									#48
	Tired of ads?

Any new news on when the patch is coming out ?

	11-11-2002 05:50									#49
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Flesh Reaver Notyoueither, I have played MP games using the advice you offered, and it runs great without a hitch (max 3 human players though). However, it never fails to crash at some point. So, I'm sticking with my opinion that the MP game is unplayable, and they have no right selling this game in it's current condition.

Hmmm. OK, crashing once play started would be an issue that has not been discussed much. You have a point there. I know some of my games will crash, while others run better. I usually get at least an hour in between (not always). Sometimes no crash at all in 4 or 5 hours.

The facts of the situation remain the same though. It is out. It needs fixing. It is being fixed. Patience would be good if blood pressure is an issue.

	11-11-2002 14:00									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Flesh Reaver Judging by the way MP performed for me, it will take about 6 months and 50 patches to get the game up to speed. As a matter of fact, I doubt the MP will ever deliver 100%. It is just too screwed. Not that it matters to me. I am returning this waste of money, and vow NEVER to buy another game with the words Firaxis, or Infrograms again.

You're right! Since the launch of Civ 3 Firaxis' Work is a really rubbish, is an incredible fraud. How many patches (and time) do we need to play?

	11-11-2002 14:02									#51
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Have you bought it?

	13-11-2002 03:08									#52
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Flesh Reaver Not that it matters to me. I am returning this waste of money, and vow NEVER to buy another game with the words Firaxis, or Infrograms again.

Jumping to way ahead here no? Ever heard of the word never say never?

I will save this quote in case firaxis/infograme combo publishes the most revolutionary game of the 21st century that is unmatched in its fun factor and resistance to warez pirating.

	13-11-2002 05:28									#53
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Multiplayer civ is probably not an easy thing to design/implement.

Its obvious firaxis have ran out of time and had to release the game before christmas to make the expansion economically viable.

	13-11-2002 20:52									#54
	Got spare money?

Sandy, the problem I'm finding with many of the ranters here at Apolyton is that they don't understand marketing, they don't understand economic viability, and they certainly have no clue in terms of the effort required. Finally, anyone who demands perfection on a silver platter the first time they deal with someone or an organization is either a trust-fund baby, a spoiled bratt, an emotional toddler, or a type A personallity with too much time on their hands and nothing better to do.

There that somes it up. And unless you wish to add to this list, any statement to the contrary meerely proves my point.

	13-11-2002 21:23									#55
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quote: Originally posted by WarriorPoet Sandy, the problem I'm finding with many of the ranters here at Apolyton is that they don't understand marketing, they don't understand economic viability, and they certainly have no clue in terms of the effort required. Finally, anyone who demands perfection on a silver platter the first time they deal with someone or an organization is either a trust-fund baby, a spoiled bratt, an emotional toddler, or a type A personallity with too much time on their hands and nothing better to do.

I agree with this, PTW would certainly be a failure if they released it after christmas, however .... we (as consumers) should have guarantees of a reasonably reliable and playable game through patches. I have bought the game on good faith, that maintainance and bug fixing will continue after the release.

	13-11-2002 23:02									#56
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That has always been my philosophy with this game. I figured MP would probably not work entirely correctly, and I also knew that SP would work great and maybe even better than in Vanilla Civ 3.

My experience with Firaxis is that things get better with time, and that they work hard to satisfy their customers. There are companies, most of the industry actually, that will release a game, bugs and all, give one patch and give up. Firaxis rises far above this dispicable heap in their efforts.

	13-11-2002 23:50									#57
	Increase Your PM Length

I wouldn't call these people spoiled brat's and such, but I might call the users who are taking up for Firaxis and Infograms - spoiled brats. My reasoning being - you've obviously never had to earn any money and then see it spent on something that totally doesn't work remotely as advertised. (and what does work should have been available for free)

Some people do understand marketing, and the fact is this game was put out simply to make money and get it out before Christmas - so that your HARD EARNED dollars would not be spent on something more worthy, and instead on this lame product. This is simply a coup and an attempt by the manufactures to make money.

The title of the game is " PLAY THE WORLD", - multiplayer is the marketing stength of this game. This product was sold as an expansion to Civilization to allow for Multiplayer ability - when I purchased it that's what I thought I was paying for. It simply can't do it, doesn't work. If this product was tested - I would seriously like to see the results of the testing. I mean I haven't talked to anyone who has played a complete game over the internet, played reasonable, played without some tech guru setup - just 4 or 5 average "joes" hooking up and playing a game. Who has done it? I'll buy them dinner.

If you accept this game in it's current form then your accepting mediocrity. To sit here and call people spoiled brats, and what not's, because they would like to see what they purchased function properly is crazy.

To defend Firaxis by saying that Infograms rushed them - well Firaxis should not have accepted a job that they couldn't finish.

To me simply this product reaks of a sales gimmick, and if something is not done soon, I will be sending mine back.

How hard is it to post an apology on thier website, or heaven forbid - an update on the patch that is supposed to be fourth coming. Mark my words what is going to happen. A patch is going to come out if not a week or two then probalbly a month. This will probably correct much of the drops and crashes in the game, however I'm betting it will not address the lag time between moves and such. Then after that nothing, not a word - except by next Christmas or maybe the next - Civilization IV. It will include multiplayer, a whole new engine to run it on, many more addtions, all the Civilizations in PTW, and much more for $50. Anybody want to bet.

my two cents is all.

	14-11-2002 00:43									#58
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I earn my money like many of the rest of the people on this forum. However, I have a firm grip on reality/maturity that seems to be missing here.

BOP, you're not a spoiled bratt, however, you may fall into one of the other categories simply from the way you phrased your argument, however, what I have said should not be misconstrewed as a pat on the back for Firaxis either.

I don't like what happened to the MP community, who got hooked by the marketing hype from Infogrames and Firaxis. Shipping on the strength of MP and not being able to deliver is not acceptable.

However, to expect them to give you MP, something they said they could not give you in the original civ 3-and which they did not have the time and resources to do well then either-for free is ludicrous!

That's like saying give me the sequel to my book for free! Or better yet, "...that report you just spent three months on and 60 hours a week on...could you do a bunch of additional stuff this Saturday with no pay?"

Hello!

The game's release was pressured, and maybe forced into a poor MP partnernership. The bottom line however, is that MP is doable, not perfect, but doable. All they promised was MP capability, not perfection. Perfection takes time, and lots of customer support. Let's hope Firaxis can ressolve the MP community's issues before Christmas. If not, then I'll return my copy as well.

Who here has ever used an MP utility/game that never crashed or never lagged??? I rest my case.

	14-11-2002 01:14									#59
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So you know what I would ove to see, a patch that worked. Even better, a realistic date of when it is coming out. I agree with BOP, all I do is work. The software industry seems to be in the somewhat unique position of being able to screw people, and at the same time have those same people bicker about how much of a shaft they are willing to take before its not ok. Everyday I check to see if the new patch is out. I am thinking MOO3 will be what I put my hopes into though. I wouldn't expect much from firaxis, they couldn't even update their own webpage untill after PTW was in stores.

Hope is Lost

	14-11-2002 01:27									#60
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While I'm here in the heat, mind if I roast some smores at least? That at a minimum would seem productive:tounge: