03-11-2002 04:12									#1
	Official Debate: what to do about Zakharov Get a bigger avatar today!

At the start of our last turnchat, we contacted Zakharov, who demanded that we hand over doctrine: Loyalty, or else. When we refused, he declared war. We have as yet been unable to end the war, as Zakharov has been demanding ridiculous sums in exchange for peace. What should we do now?

	03-11-2002 04:23									#2
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Ignore him.

	03-11-2002 04:26									#3
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My own orders in the chat were to try and achieve peace for nothing, thus returning the status quo ante, but I think we're going to need some kind of military, at least, to get him to see reason.

	03-11-2002 04:29									#4
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Sea probes. We need to infiltrate, grab map and hit a few techs. I'd bet our old scientific friend will see the light soon enough.

On a related note: if it wasn't crucial planning for and going into FM as soon as possible before, it is now. We need that, or you'll see Zak bribing Morgan into this fray.

	03-11-2002 04:29									#5
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I agree with Maniac. He's not on our continent (i think) so he probably won't do much for a while, and our infrastructure *really* doesn't need a war yet IMHO. Just leave him be (but bolster defenses)

	03-11-2002 04:30									#6
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We don't even know where he is. I say we just continue as normal. Later when our industrial power has grown we can make the rest of Chiron understand we are the true heirs of UN authority.

	03-11-2002 04:33									#7
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I agree with moomin that this war makes it imperative that we go FM, but I don't think it's very likely that Zak will get along with Morgan; he's running Planned too.

	03-11-2002 04:50									#8
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I still think with Morgan's base now near ours, FM would just be too easy for his probes. Besides, we need to grow before we can prosper!

	03-11-2002 04:53									#9
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What do you mean, too easy for his probes? There's no probe negative to FM.

	03-11-2002 04:58									#10
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sorry got confused for a second. I still favour planned (already given reasons earlier) but i spose to get into Morgans good books FM might be worth it.

	03-11-2002 05:14									#11
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Actually, give that Zak's completing the EG now, I say we need to make this vendetta work for us. Probe first, and let's see if it's somewhere grabbable...

	03-11-2002 05:37									#12
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[cut]

Last edited by Kirov on 03-11-2002 at 07:37

	03-11-2002 05:43									#13
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I distinctly remember we decided that this was not allowed when I raised the question. Of course we can't put the genie back in the bottle now, but we'll all need ot remember that in future (I'm going to ask the court about this. I wouldn't be at all displeased if this were allowed, but the law is the law).

EDIT: information deleted.

	03-11-2002 05:45									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

Kirov: Playing ahead is banned by our Constitution. I know you did it quite innocently, and don't blame you for it. Nevertheless, it would be best if you edited your post to erase the information you gained in that way, so that others may come to a decision without it.

	03-11-2002 05:48									#15
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Adam, the problem is that we don't yet have an official definition of what 'playing ahead' actually is. We could give a RP justification that it's just our diplomats exploring the possibilities in advance of formal negotiations, and we would have found this out anyway if we talked to Morgan (assuming he would be willing when we did).

	03-11-2002 06:31									#16
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Done.

	03-11-2002 06:42									#17
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Adam, the problem is that we don't yet have an official definition of what 'playing ahead' actually is. We could give a RP justification that it's just our diplomats exploring the possibilities in advance of formal negotiations, and we would have found this out anyway if we talked to Morgan (assuming he would be willing when we did).

If it's possible, I'd be grateful.

	03-11-2002 07:26									#18
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i think we should have no playing ahead at all. playing ahead, meaning ending the turn, contacting faction, or moving units

anywho, ASAP we need to order all our coastal bases to work on probe foils. lots and lots of probe foils. send them everywhere, find him, probe him (for tech, energy, maybe a base) and then we'll see what we can do with him.

	03-11-2002 07:31									#19
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I can understand banning moving units or ending the turn, as you'll be finding things out that we probably wouldn't have in the chat, but what's wrong with talking to other factions to see what they'll offer? I gave a RP justification above, and we would find out the same thing if we talked to them during the chat, anyway.

	03-11-2002 07:42									#20
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus I can understand banning moving units or ending the turn, as you'll be finding things out that we probably wouldn't have in the chat, but what's wrong with talking to other factions to see what they'll offer? I gave a RP justification above, and we would find out the same thing if we talked to them during the chat, anyway.

because you'd be finding things out. say you did that before this chat, and found out zak was going to declare war? you just can't do it

	03-11-2002 07:51									#21
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I also think that's nothing wrong with contacting other factions (and not only because I have already done it).

AFAIK, AI's intensions are not randomized at the moment, so it's not possible, for instance, that Morgan declare Vendetta during turnchat. But maybe I'm wrong...

I considered contact with Morgan just like switching SE for a while to see how net income will change. It's nothing more, I think. Of course, it should be banned to see , let's say, whether we will give us tech if threatened, but I didn't do that. Just clicked on his commlink...

	03-11-2002 11:07									#22
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Krov, did you actually do anything more than contact him? Did you ask to trade something, or was it just something he offered when you contacted him?

	03-11-2002 16:54									#23
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I agree all out-of-turnchat play is wrong.

GT: It's not like we want to know that, is it?

	03-11-2002 19:41									#24
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OK, I agree with moomin, let's forget about this whole affair, I won't do this anymore.

	04-11-2002 03:29									#25
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quote: GT: It's not like we want to know that, is it?

Know what?

	04-11-2002 04:58									#26
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Isn't out of turnchat play just like saving and playing ahead on SP to see what happens... therefore i would agree its wrong as it gives us an unfair advantage.

	05-11-2002 02:01									#27
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Just what heppened in that contact. The less we know, the less breakage, I think.