03-11-2002 07:38									#1
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now that we're at war, we might want to switch our research focus. do we:

1. Research impact weapons?
   
2. Beeline to synthetic fossil fuels?
   
3. Research other military equiptment (cruisers, artillery)?
   
4. Do nothing?

	03-11-2002 08:11									#2
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My thoughts: Rely on Morgan to supply us with Doctrine: Flexibility. Go straight to Intellectual Integrity and the Citizens' Defense Force. Then decide whether we want to pursue war or peace. If war, go straight to Missile weapons, picking plasma up on the way. If peace, go straight to Cyberethics, then pick up Plasma as an insurance policy against an attack.

	03-11-2002 09:21									#3
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Adam: why bother with the CDF? It's not like zakharov actually has any capability to attack us.

Anyway, my recommendation: Get flex from Morgan, and start pumping out foil probes, then send them out to look for Zakh, while beelining for missile weapons. After that, research D:AP.

	03-11-2002 09:24									#4
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IMHO, wait until we find Zak. What if he's too far to make any real war actions?

	03-11-2002 09:25									#5
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They'll still be useful, just not as immediately so.

	03-11-2002 15:10									#6
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I'm also for researching Foils, not only are they usefull in the war, but it will also help us find other factions, and possibly get them to help us.
Zak is already building the EG, we must get to the other factions efore he does.

	03-11-2002 17:14									#7
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No question about the ships, we need'em. I suggest getting them from our friend Morgan.

And then whoever is in charge of base prod should start cranking out probes pronto. Fortunately, as soon as the SP in Panama^H^H^H^H^H^H^H New Suez is done, that city will be able to really crank them out - good prod there already.

As for the rest, let's wait and see till we know just how much Zak is worth. This little misunderstanding should not derail us from our long term growth plan, and we need restrictions lifted above all for that. Once that's done, I'll be happy to throw in my support for more military tech.

	03-11-2002 18:40									#8
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we dont know where zak is so let him be but going for synth fuel isnt bad at all....it will come in handy against morgan when he declares war about us being planned (hopefully we switch to FM before that or atleast get doc: flex from him)

	03-11-2002 23:15									#9
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that too. we'll need to expell morgan from our continent eventually.

	04-11-2002 03:47									#10
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Why?

	04-11-2002 04:40									#11
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I reckon plasma, citizens defence force and missile should be our priorities. We need to be able to defend ourselves, but i think we can get to missile weapons before Zak can attack, so no need for Impact IMHO. And that puts on well on the way to Air Power

	04-11-2002 06:56									#12
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Why?

once he becomes useless for tech trading, or declares war because of SE, we may want to "expand our territory into his". why you say? why not?

	04-11-2002 08:52									#13
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quote: Originally posted by TKG once he becomes useless for tech trading, or declares war because of SE, we may want to "expand our territory into his". why you say? why not?

And that's what I wanted to hear. I was against building combat units "just in case", it's simply waste of techs, minerals and our precious time. But if we are really going to use them, you have my vote...

	04-11-2002 08:56									#14
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quote: once he becomes useless for tech trading, or declares war because of SE, we may want to "expand our territory into his". why you say? why not?

He won't declare war if we go FM. Besides, wouldn't it be better just to grab a few bases from him and make him a submissive?

	04-11-2002 09:12									#15
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Agreed. Making him submissive is a much better way to go.

	04-11-2002 18:55									#16
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Yep, get foils from Morgan (it was already our second choice for numerous other reasons). I agree with General Tacitus that CDF is unnecessary at this point (we are not under threat of attack form Zak), but reaching IntInt is still a good plan for trained units.

For Uni war, go for missiles. If we miscalculate and Zak's impact rover arrives, probe it away from him.

As for Morgan . . .

While I am all in favor of protecting our territory from incursion, why are we suddenly plotting an offensive move against our neighbor? Isn't this rather un-peacekeeper-like? A submissive Morgan would be handy, to be sure, but is a sneak attack from him a certainty (there is a strong move afoot to go FM/ wealth, which would greatly reduce tensions)? And doesn't this significantly alter the timetable for our weapons needs? If defeating a nearby enemy is the objective, then it would seem we need impact rovers, now, and lot's of 'em.

	04-11-2002 21:17									#17
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The CDF isn't needed *yet* but it'll help massively if Zak gets anything over to us. Likewise with HEC, i still think if we get missiles soon enough we have no need for Impact. EE priority thoough, we need tree farms!

	05-11-2002 00:19									#18
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I think we need a) boats b) tree farms and c) weapons. In that order. We're not going to do any fighting anytime soon, so I really see no reason to divert our focus away from growth. Let's revisit the weapon issue when we know where the enemy is and what he's got that's worth taking.

	05-11-2002 06:09									#19
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quote: While I am all in favor of protecting our territory from incursion, why are we suddenly plotting an offensive move against our neighbor? Isn't this rather un-peacekeeper-like? A submissive Morgan would be handy, to be sure, but is a sneak attack from him a certainty (there is a strong move afoot to go FM/ wealth, which would greatly reduce tensions)? And doesn't this significantly alter the timetable for our weapons needs? If defeating a nearby enemy is the objective, then it would seem we need impact rovers, now, and lot's of 'em.

No-one's suggesting we make such a move right now, just TKG saying that we should make our move eventually.

	05-11-2002 06:19									#20
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quote: I think we need a) boats b) tree farms and c) weapons. In that order. We're not going to do any fighting anytime soon, so I really see no reason to divert our focus away from growth. Let's revisit the weapon issue when we know where the enemy is and what he's got that's worth taking.

Well, he's quite likely to have the Empath Guild by the time we can gear up to fight him. That would certainly be worth taking, if we can't sabotage the production.

	05-11-2002 06:45									#21
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus No-one's suggesting we make such a move right now, just TKG saying that we should make our move eventually.

and when we do, he's better off as a submissive, then he is erradicated

	05-11-2002 18:53									#22
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quote: Originally posted by TKG and when we do, he's better off as a submissive, then he is erradicated

I'm not disagreeing (I like submissives as much as the next guy) - just playing devils advocate, "peacemakers for peace".

	08-11-2002 02:45									#23
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Anyone who delares War on us must be completly destroyed, i wont tolerate any Submission. Thats traitorous thinking and like going in Bed with the Enemy!

	08-11-2002 10:55									#24
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If we refuse to allow submission, then we will only be prolonging the war to no good end. Uncounted thousands of innocents will die because of our desire for revenge. Is that what you really want?

	08-11-2002 21:31									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Main_Brain Anyone who delares War on us must be completly destroyed, i wont tolerate any Submission. Thats traitorous thinking and like going in Bed with the Enemy!

That's sarcasm... right?

	09-11-2002 17:19									#26
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Nope. Submissives are a Pain in the .. lower Back.
They betray, they steal, they give your map to any1 (and have the whole as your are 'pacted'), they build bases to get your Terraforming Improvements etc.
Better to make a clear end as long as we have the Upper hand than risking the rise and eventual following second War.
Also it will easy our Terraform Up/down projects, but thats another matter.

	09-11-2002 18:20									#27
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I have never had a betrayal of a submissive in all my games. Do you play with many atrocities??
About that map trading, the AI is constantly aware of the entire map anyways.

	09-11-2002 18:51									#28
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besides, when they're submissives, you can say "give me >insert item here< or i will cancel our pact" and they'll give you whatever you want (if we so desire)

they're also great to do our research for us, as long as we gift them techs (this also prevents them from rebelling: i've never had an AI rebel)

	09-11-2002 21:02									#29
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And lets not forget the commerce!

	09-11-2002 21:27									#30
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quote: Originally posted by TKG they're also great to do our research for us, as long as we gift them techs

No you have to say you need credits and offer a tech in return. They'll only offer about 25 ec per tech, but at least you get something for giving all your tech to the submissive ally.