03-11-2002 09:40									#1
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Do you use them?

They have nice advantage of neglecting even the best weapons and armours enemy can have, OTOH, they always cost support and never can have better "reactor". But there are many facilities and SPs boosting your worms, and, using them, you can always switch to green instead of power...

I must say I have never really used those new SMAX units, and have not a clue whether they are useful in combat. Did someone check it?

I'd like to hear your opinions.

BTW, I suspect that native life worms are almost useless in MP, because it's too easy to fight them (Scout patrol with either Empath Song or Hypnotic trance). Am I right?

	03-11-2002 12:10									#2
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Native life forms don't go too well with my preferred style (Democracy - Free Market). Even with the Gaians, I have little success with them. I prefer to wait for Chaos Guns.

	03-11-2002 16:22									#3
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The new lifeforms are quite crap but when you get 290/30 demon bould outside a city in teh endgame yoyu better kill them fasyt because otherwise your city is toast.

	03-11-2002 20:19									#4
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eh? "290/30 demon [boil]" isn't making sense to me…

	03-11-2002 22:07									#5
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Typically, if I'm playing a Pro-Planet faction I'll have some in, but other than that I stick with medium lifeforms - its somethin' to build unit's morale on.

	04-11-2002 01:19									#6
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I don't use them exclusively, but they're nice to have - in the early game for fungal exploration, as a nice free source of military power when captured (need a decent planet rating though), and as a good way of combating enemy fleets. Native life seems to work better on sea than on land.

	04-11-2002 01:30									#7
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I think he means 29/ 30
Worms make excellent Scouts at the Beginning as they arent attacked by Podpopped Worms.
Worms are your weapon of choice when your Morale is pretty good but your Combat Techs are uhmm not so good
The Reacotr doesnt matter so much as worms seem to kill 33% of strenght in each succesful combat round.
Also the treat Fungus as Roads which is pretty good if oyu missed the XDome :=)

	04-11-2002 03:17									#8
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As in most things SMAC, combined arms is the paradigm.

-Trance is expensive on units with weapons, Empath song is expensive, period.

-Basic Psi combat is 1:1 at sea, 3:2 on land.

-You can't use nervegas on native life.

-Best defender in the stack (generally) defends.

So, an IoD with escorting foils or cruisers (one each trance and best armor AAA) makes for an invasion that's tough to stop short of the beaches.

Even 3-res armor with the trance ability will generally lose to a decent sized worm if you can attack it in fungus.

Free Marketers, even with empath 6 res weapons, will have a hard time knocking out a native life unit one on one if the Neural Amplifier is in effect.

Locusts (if you have a decent Planet rating and the Dream Twister) will take down almost anything.

	04-11-2002 03:47									#9
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Oh, I see that noone uses MW as a regular army, but rather as support units and for special cases. I recall I wondered some time whether it makes sense to build a decent native army, with Biology Labs instead of Command Centers, etc.

And have you used those new SMAX worms, i.e. Spore Launchers and Sealurks? Are Spore Launchers simple artillery, differing only in using psi in artillery duel? I know that Sealurks can directly attack a base, can they capture it? Can they carry troops?

	04-11-2002 04:31									#10
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Spore launchers are quite useful as artillary substitrutes but don't beat the real think. I never find sealurks worth the effort, especially given as a demon boil IoD is just as easy to get.

Overall I don't see native life as worth the ffeort - mind you I play as Zak most of the time and I'm normally far higher up the tech tree than the AI is.

and I actually meant 20/30.

	04-11-2002 04:42									#11
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Locusts are one of the few air units that can take a base. Something to bear in mind in the late game conquest.

	04-11-2002 05:07									#12
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whoops I meant 20/30 too :=)

	04-11-2002 07:34									#13
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I think sealurks can attack coastal cities.

At least, I've been watching the AI do it. Don't know if they can capture a coastal cause I've never seen/tried it.

	04-11-2002 08:00									#14
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There are a few reasons / situations where native units can really help out. Firstly, they are great for Dee and Fungboy. Their planet bonus helps you get a free worm recruitment policy going immediately. They explore, pop pods and capture or kill other worms to increase the army or make some money.

There is a wierd glitch with low morale and children's cretches, whereby native units get better the lower your morale rating is. Dee thus gets a second bonus, with her inherent -1 morale.

There are times when I somehow get a lot of good worm tech, but I don't have airpower or AAA. If I am getting harrassed by enemy airpower in such a situation, worms make a decent defense against that (with the Neural Amplifier). The no advantage from higher tech aspect of worms also means no disadvantage from lower tech.

Finally, the locusts are very expensive, but if you can afford them they do a decent job at taking out enemy sea bases etc. The IoDs are really good, a great pod popping unit for those far flung sea pods. Run Green and recruit and army of them to scoop up all of those goodies.

All that being said, the worst thing about the native life (aside from the early game) is that they don't improve over time. Thus when I am building all sorts of drop infantry etc to overrun the world, the native units are stuck with their fairly anemic movement limitations. Of course where there's a will, there's a way, and drop infantry transports can be used to spread your worms about the planet in the late game if necessary. So I think that they are a nice complement to the game, without being a game breaker by any stretch of the imagination.

	04-11-2002 14:06									#15
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Sikander outlined most of the uses I reserve for native life, but like most players here, I tend to add them to the mix, rather than exclusively rely on them, mostly due to their rather crippling support requirements. (I run Democracy). There is one use I have for native lifeforms that I didn't see mentioned, and that's for pruning treaty/pact protected bases. Nothing like releasing a horde of Worms or IOD's around that annoying seabase that Svensgaard put up just outside your harbor.

	04-11-2002 16:26									#16
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Is it possible to hit wild Mind Worm with Planet Buster?
One can then nuke even pactmates...

	04-11-2002 21:18									#17
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you cant use Missiles in pactmates/neutrals territory I thnik at least you cant with Tectonic/FungusMissiles

	04-11-2002 22:16									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Main_Brain you cant use Missiles in pactmates/neutrals territory I thnik at least you cant with Tectonic/FungusMissiles

Not quite true. I've detonated a planet buster in my own territory moving the cursor too fast across a patch of fungus that was hiding a worm.

The same could happen for planet controlled natives in a pact mate or treatied territory.

The mere use of the planet buster caused all factions to vendetta against me in the above case. I wipe something like 4 bases each complete with infrastructure and the majority of SP's. Planet rape ensued. It wasn't a pretty sight.

	04-11-2002 23:59									#19
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LOL @ Ogie!

You gotsa be VERY careful when moving PBs! Didn't you have confirm odds on? Or doesn't that apply to PBs and/or native life?

	05-11-2002 01:03									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Mongoose LOL @ Ogie! You gotsa be VERY careful when moving PBs! Didn't you have confirm odds on? Or doesn't that apply to PBs and/or native life?

It's been a long time since I've launched a PB, but don't think there's a confirm odds window beforehand. I would love to see the odds if there were (annihilation: 1). Or maybe a 50's style fail safe: "You are about to wreak an untold hurtin' on somebody. Continue?"

Or a voiceover "It's not nice to fool mother nature."

	05-11-2002 04:57									#21
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Hmmm, never thought to release worms that way… must ponder. I have thought of releasing a supported worm/IoD in territory close to another faction and attempting a recapture to create a support-free unit.

	05-11-2002 14:29									#22
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If you are playing the PlanetCult, the NL units serve as police - i.e., an otherwise pretty useless independent green Spore Launcher that you captured will pacify two drones for free, assuming you can use police.

It is possible to pick up a reasonably large supply of NL (along with some spare change) simply by cruising the fungus with MWs with very little little risk. You have to be a little more careful at sea, since IIRC, the wild IoDs will attack your domesticated IoDs, unlike the wild MWs. I believe that it is necessary to have at least 1 turn of movement remaining for a unit to make a capture attempt, so it is sometimes necessary to spend some time 'herding' wild NL around so that you have that full MP available - sometimes it helps to have a rover around too, but they are subject to attack and need to go to a base or monolith to get fully healed, unlike the MWs and other NL, which can get fully healed in fungus.

I have heard that having a NL unit in your base will insulate it from the nasty population hit of a nerve gas attack, but I try not to let things come to that, so I have not had direct experience of that effect .

Probably most people already know this, but I didn't see it mentioned - that NL units that would otherwise require support from one of your bases are support free when in fungus.

	06-11-2002 00:31									#23
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quote: Planet buster in my own territory

In your Own Territory you can do what you want? :P

	06-11-2002 00:55									#24
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quote: Originally posted by johndmuller I have heard that having a NL unit in your base will insulate it from the nasty population hit of a nerve gas attack, but I try not to let things come to that, so I have not had direct experience of that effect . .

Its true and better still nerve gas is totally ineffective -- the 50% attack modifier does not work against the worm as the entire battle is determined by psi combat-- its not perfect defence but it can certainly slow down an attcker who might otherwise be taking out 2-3 defenders per chopper

The remainer of Johnd's comments are also totally on the mark-- Native life are a useful addition to an attack force and are best when captured of course

But the one terrible thing about native life is that they are incredibly susceptible to artillery barrage-- So unless the natives have a spore launcher or other arty along, they die easily ( or take such huge damage that they are easily killed by even the lowest moral units)

I used to be a HUGE proponent of the strength of an IOD, figuring that a high morale IOD was about the most survivable ship on the ocean ( not a huge claim given the weakness of SMAC naval power). Then I saw what arty does to them-- ouch !!

	06-11-2002 01:55									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow I have thought of releasing a supported worm/IoD in territory close to another faction and attempting a recapture to create a support-free unit.

Ooooh, good plan. Saves the support either way - if you can't recapture, just take the 20-30 EC!

I like leaving spore launchers roaming the fungus to drum up new worms to capture/kill, parked on fungus squares next to formers/ crawlers so that wild worms can't pop up and disrupt my operations. Captured native life is also good to send along as escorts for colony pods, since they can check ahead in the fungus squares.

	07-11-2002 13:03									#26
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Mmmm, planet pearls!

	08-11-2002 02:41									#27
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whole economies are based on Pearls