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woody
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quote:
Originally posted by ducki
The AI changes are great, and it's more than just unit concentration, which is actually a bigger deal than you make it out to be.
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Okay, that's at least twice you've mentioned that. Care to back it up? Name some of the ways the AI is improved, that can't be done with the Civ3 editor.
Because, as far as I can see, it's a total rip-off unless you want the multiplayer (which, I know... doesn't work). It costs almost as much as a new game, and doesn't give too much extra for single-player.
Personally, I'd rather buy a new game than a patch. If it was a $5 download I might be interested, but certainly not at current prices.
Then again... I only bought the original "The Sims", and none of the expansion stuff, so maybe I'm different. But at least The Sims expansion packs had more meat to them that just the single-player XP stuff in PtW.
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ducki
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quote:
Originally posted by SirOsis
I didn't even read this until now |
Apparently you still haven't read my entire post...
quote:
and I am simply amazed that you're buying this crap. I realize games need patches but this game needs more than a patch. It was released completely unplayable MP. This is what the name of the game suggests "Play the World" not "Play SP because the MP part is worthless".
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Gamespy = buggy.
Anyone here buy Neverwinter Nights when it was released.
Gamespy = buggy.
From what I hear, LAN is just peachy.
quote:
I honestly have not played a game that has as many bugs as this product.
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That's hilarious! Pull the other one!
I've played plenty of games that were far buggier than this.
Now, if you'd care to amend your statement that you've never played a game that had such buggy network code, I might be willing to grant you that, but I think some Diablo fans, and definitely some NWN fans, would argue with you until you were both blue in the face.
quote:
It is disgusting. I didn't buy it for SP. I bought it for MULTIPLAYER! So don't feed me the line about how good SP is.
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You seem to be under the impression that the entire XP is only about MP. It just isn't true. Those of us that bought it for the non-MP additions are, as a rule of thumb, much happier than those who bought specifically for MP.
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If I wanted SP I would have stuck with Civ3. I expected much more with something with Sid Meier's name on it.
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Now this is just naive.
Especially for a product that has the name "Gamespy" on it.
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Were my expectations too high? No. In its current state this game is the worst I've ever purchased. No wonder the reviews have been lackluster. |
No, the network code is probably one of the worst you've ever purchased.
If you'd taken the time to read much on the forums and previews, you'd probably have found that the SP side was solid, but the network code was not as polished as should be.
I'm still amazed that anyone can buy a game that uses Gamespy and expect it to be solid for the first month or two.
But to say the entire game is crap is just silly and petty.
The network code may be a steaming pile, but that's more Gamespy's fault than anyone's.
Other than the Internet MP side, this is a solid game expansion.
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ducki
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quote:
Originally posted by WarpStorm
The big difference in AI is that the computer (and especially barbarians) will weigh the odds before attacking and won't tend to do as many hopeless battles. In addition, they will tend to pillage and play resource denial games that they wouldn't have earlier. |
That's part of it, yes.
Also, the AI are much much much more proactive about trading, both with the HUMAN and with the other AIs.
I'm consistently being called on the diplo-phone by civs I never met and didn't even know existed because the AIs are trading contacts very aggressively.
They are also trading techs more aggressively and not only amongst themselves.
The AIs have also been tweaked so that, in the Ancient Age, when they hit their pop limit, they switch to "production" mode - this means you'll see less AI cities with 4 squares of irrigated floodplain and zero mines, you'll actually see cities with a more balanced approach to tile improvement - don't bother disputing this, Soren himself confirmed they put this one in.
And the smarter tactical decisions by units - or the "spread out, flee, pillage" bit - if you think a huge stack of AI units is more difficult to manage than 4 or 5 medium-small stacks running around your empire cutting roads, disconnecting resources, kidnapping AND KILLING workers so you not only lose them, but can't get them back, then yeah, this part is lame.
For me, a huge stack that stupidly attacks a fortified city that it can't possibly take while ignoring all my juicy, improved bonus tiles, horses, iron, saltpeter is no more difficult to handle than 3 barbarians from a goody hut.
It's just sadly easy.
So those are a few of the tweaks I can detail from memory.
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ducki
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cronos_qc: I don't play FPS or RTS, so my experience with GSpy is admittedly limited, but I haven't seen a release of a game that had Gamespy built-in that didn't have problems at release, namely NWN and PtW.
No, data doesn't go to GS, but for some reason, playing over the internet, GS games apparently have problems at release. It gets fixed quickly, but it should still be expected from a network game.
It should be expected because there is simply no feasible way to loadtest or efficiency test on the scale that they are expected to perform. Sure, you can simulate loads, but it's not 100% - you need the real load to really know how the network and the code respond.
If the patch is already live, I'm impressed. I expected it to be 2003 by the time it got smoothed out.
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ducki
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quote:
Originally posted by SirOsis
Neverwinter Nights was buggy but this is far worse. At least with NWN I could play MP.
Trying to put the blame on Gamespy is a crock as well. I'm no fan of gamespy but PTW is the worst MP I've seen. |
Which was my precise point.
It's not the XP that sucks, it's the network code.
quote:
Since I'm playing on a T1 and an Athlon 1800+, I should have minimal lag but the game plays like I'm on a 1200 baud modem and a 386.
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You sound semi-experienced, so you should know better than to only take into account your part of the connection. Lag is created by many factors and just because you have a T1 doesn't mean the game will scream.
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You can be a fanboy all you want and say how great it is but I know better. |
I'm not being a fanboi and I never tried to say the MP or network code was great.
I was pointing out that the XP as a whole is not uber-buggy. There's scads of us here on 'poly that are having a blast with PtW that think it's a great expansion. We just couldn't care less about seeing who can put together an archer rush faster, us or the other human that could manage a good enough connection via gamespy to actually start a game.
We're playing PtW and enjoying all the great stuff that was added for everyone, not just the stuff added for MP fans.
Yeah, you can call me fanboi all you like.
At least I'm having fun with my game.
If you feel like you got cheated, then by all means take the game back and get a refund.
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When it becomes available for under 10 dollars, will be a good enough reason to get it.
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thinkingamer
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Anyone who played Civ2 or SMAC and AOK can tell that Civ3 is a cheap combination of those games.
2 good things about Civ3: Culture and AI, BUT!!!
While I like the idea of Culture, its not executed right (playing peacefully culture makes the game more fun, but playing the conqueror culture makes the game less fun)
And while the AI is the Best of any Civ games so far, they're: 1. irrational...they make the dummest deals that makes whole idea of diplomacy stupid. 2. They cheat (builds things faster starting on regent level! and they like to trade techs to each other) 3. Basicly the AI expands better and attacks you with more units which is not a big deal.
Finally, is PtW worth the price as an ex?
IMHO even with its sigle player additions, PtW is not worth $30. I mean, Firaxis promised MP for the original Civ3 before its release!!! And compared with Aok: the Conquerors, PtW is........not so good.
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woody
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quote:
Originally posted by ducki
Which was my precise point.
It's not the XP that sucks, it's the network code.
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Here's a clue: The network code is part of the game. Take off your fanboy glasses for a single minute!
It's like buying a car that doesn't work, and the sales-droid telling you, "The car isn't broken. It's the engine that sucks."
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Coracle
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quote:
Originally posted by woody
I'll never buy another Firaxis game until it's been out a few months, anyway.
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I recommend you wait SEVERAL months at least; it may take that long to get all the new patches out if Firaxis' next game is as buggy as these were.
You should also read the online forums for accurate reviews. Plenty of people hated Civ 3 and were so posting earlier this year; they are of course long gone from the forum now. Industry reviews are useless as they functioned as Firaxis flacks.
I for one found the CONCEPTS in Civ 3 fatally flawed even if there were no bugs at all. So I'm done with Firaxis for good.
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ducki
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quote:
Originally posted by woody
Here's a clue: The network code is part of the game. Take off your fanboy glasses for a single minute!
It's like buying a car that doesn't work, and the sales-droid telling you, "The car isn't broken. It's the engine that sucks." |
No, it's not like that at all.
A car doesn't run without an engine.
My copy of PtW works just great without good network code because, and I'll repeat myself again, not everyone cares about MP.
In a game like this, MP is separate from SP.
Once again, if you bought solely for MP, yeah, it's gonna suck.
If, like me and many others, you bought for the improvements to the game itself, it's great.
How about you take off your whiner glasses for a single minute and learn to make a simile that actually adds up.
I'll use the car you spoke of.
Having bad Network Code in an Exp.Pack like this is like having a car where the electrical system is flaky and you can't have the AC/Heater on if you want to listen to the radio, or the radio flat out doesn't work.
It's a - and here's the important bit - distinct part of the whole system that does not prevent the system from functioning under certain conditions.
The game runs great.
Multiplayer games - prepatch - did not.
The engine was fine, it's the antenna that was broken.
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woody
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quote:
Originally posted by ducki
My copy of PtW works just great without good network code because, and I'll repeat myself again, not everyone cares about MP.
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The game is called Civ3:Play the World, not Civ3:The Patch.
Although, I'll give you that in reality it's a lot more of the second than it is the first. Worth $30? Hardly!
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woody
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quote:
Originally posted by WarpStorm
woody, how would you know what it's worth? You don't have it. |
I don't have a pile of dog sh*t sitting in my living room either, but I still know that sh*t isn't worth $30. It's a patch, man! Without multiplayer working, it's just a simple patch... nothing more. Those should be free!
http://www.gamespy.com/reviews/december02/civ3pc/
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27-11-2002 02:19
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