04-11-2002 11:03									#1
	does the AI get penalized for breaking deals? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

i ask this because in my current game, i have decided to go to war with the military juggernaut aztecs in industrial age. to distract and disrupt aztec military concentration, i have formed alliance vs. aztecs with all of the 5 remaining civs. however, after about 10 turns, three of the civs with alliance decide to make peace with the aztecs. they broke the 20 turn deal and im guessing the last 2 will also give into aztecs and break deals with me. so my question is are they going to be penalized like humans when they break deals? i would like penalties for the AI, like having hard time making deals (like no gpt deals) with other civs because of their reputation. but then i wonder, since they all broke deals or going to anyways that this will even matter. still i would like it if their rep gets so tarnished that they can't trade with each other.

Last edited by Minmaster on 04-11-2002 at 12:38

	04-11-2002 11:36									#2
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Speaking of breaking deal, in my last game I was trading resources to the Germans. While my deal was active, the Ottomans swept in and conquered them before anyone had time to react. From that point on, I could not trade any of my resources away, since I "broke deals with Germany."

I really hope this is fixed in a patch or something, because if it happens, you are screwed for the rest of the game if you have excess resources.

	04-11-2002 13:52									#3
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"does the AI get penalized for breaking deals?"

It does from you.

But for the most part the AI are coded to co-operate with each other. The game is you, against the world.

	04-11-2002 14:48									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Sean But for the most part the AI are coded to co-operate with each other. The game is you, against the world.

Not true. Even though I am not sure if the AI players suffer any sort of a reputation hit from other AI players for breaking treaties, the game is not coded to be about the human vs. the AI players. The AIs behave very competitively among themselves, too. After playing something like 100-200 games, I am 100% sure that they are not biased against the human player.

As for the example the thread starter gave... well, even though I do believe that the reputation hits should hit everybody just the same, not only the human player... his case is a bit different from the common sense point of view. If I break an alliance (say, 'cause I am being badly beaten up) to get out of the war, then I should have quite some understanding for others doing the same... So if all the AIs break that particular treaty, the reputation hits among themselves would make little sense (all of them did the same, so why should they mind?).

The human should get a rep hit for drawing them into the stupid war!

	04-11-2002 16:38									#5
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack As for the example the thread starter gave... well, even though I do believe that the reputation hits should hit everybody just the same, not only the human player... his case is a bit different from the common sense point of view. If I break an alliance (say, 'cause I am being badly beaten up) to get out of the war, then I should have quite some understanding for others doing the same... So if all the AIs break that particular treaty, the reputation hits among themselves would make little sense (all of them did the same, so why should they mind?). The human should get a rep hit for drawing them into the stupid war!

ok but what if the AI broke treaty and sneak attacked during an active trade or anything else important that involved a 20 turns? my question is does the AI get penalized for breaking any 20- turn deals?

and the other allies in my case werent getting beat. they basically stayed out of the war, because only aztecs and i occupied the same continent. the other civs were far away and i only saw them reach aztec shores maybe 3 times with 10-15 naval wars. as far as i know, the other allies werent really in position to give into a peace treaty with aztecs. maybe they were offered things they couldnt resist but i doubt that.

	04-11-2002 18:40									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Minmaster my question is does the AI get penalized for breaking any 20- turn deals?

Quite frankly, I don't know and I can't recall reading anything that would be confirmed by Soren or anyone else from Firaxis.

	04-11-2002 19:05									#7
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Quite frankly, I don't know and I can't recall reading anything that would be confirmed by Soren or anyone else from Firaxis.

I don't know either

	04-11-2002 23:54									#8
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I do not know either, but it seems not or at least it is a very minimal punishment. I say that as they do a lot of back stabbing, so if they suffered much, it sure is not noticed by me.

	05-11-2002 09:39									#9
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In my current game, several civs broke millitary alliances with me in a short span of time. I bribed them all to start the alliances again. I renegotiated peace as part of the deal, so if they make peace with the enemy again, does that void our peace treaty? That was my intent, since I don't want them getting out of the alliances again, and I doubt they would want to go to war with me.

Democracies seem to make unreliable allies, presumably because they are willing to hurt their reputations if it will reduce their war weariness.

	05-11-2002 16:11									#10
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I don't think the AI get penalized for breaking deals, but I don't have any solid evidence to back my claim.

	05-11-2002 23:41									#11
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Not true. Even though I am not sure if the AI players suffer any sort of a reputation hit from other AI players for breaking treaties, the game is not coded to be about the human vs. the AI players. The AIs behave very competitively among themselves, too.

I would even say that you can often (but not always) keep out of serious battles in an unwanted war, by activating other empires. This is tougher if you are the weakest and smallest civ though. You often needs to have something to trade in for an ally, but it usually pays itself because you are able to continue your development as others do most of the fighting.

	06-11-2002 01:44									#12
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ixnay - That stinks! I've never heard of that happening before. Are you sure you didn't do something else to the Germans to prompt that response from the other civs. I know that in the past I have propped up losing civilizations by supplying them with resources only to have them destroyed, and I was never affected in terms of reputation. Of course, this was pre-PTW. It could be that this is a bug just in the expansion pack.

JohnM - I'm interested to kno whether the civs break their alliances. Thats a clever idea. I doubt that it will matter though because when treaties are renegotiated, I never see Peace as one of them. Its a shame too because I'd use that as a pretext for war many a time!