04-11-2002 13:00									#1
	Two cities on the same place ... Get a bigger avatar today!

Another strange CIV-Story - you wouldn't believe it.
The map was generated with an accelerated start.
But look ...
This was reported by El Greco in the German Civilization Webring Forum.

Attachment: stadt.zip
This has been downloaded 17 time(s).

	04-11-2002 17:47									#2
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I think it belongs to the date line phenomenons.
The date line ins no "line", but a vertical chain of fields which belong to both sides of the line.

	04-11-2002 19:44									#3
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The cities are on two different tiles...

	04-11-2002 20:50									#4
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Weird.

Utica (Carthiginian) and Ulundi (Zulu) are built on the same square (55,31). Each city is working different terrain shows the other's worked squares as occupied. But units from both civs appear stationed in each city. To see this, use the Cheat Menu's Reveal Map and then Find City.

Berlin and Seville are built on adjacent squares. That isn't supposed to happen either. But neither of these oddities has anything to do with the DateLine. The Dateline is the line of "0" longitude which is nowhere near either location.

	05-11-2002 05:32									#5
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how about a screen shot for thos eof us having trouble downloading it

	05-11-2002 05:58									#6
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Maybe someone familiar with hex editing save files can tell us wether this effect might be possible by hacking a save file, since even the map editor will not allow two cities to be placed adjacent to each other.

I suspect a hack job, and it could be that another might explain those sightings of 5 specials in one city.

Either that, or just an unusual, but unreproducible glitch.

	05-11-2002 06:47									#7
	Comin' right up Got spare money?

Upper left is what you see from the German perspective, upper right is the city screen.
Lower left the cheat map showing 2 cities on one tile.
Lower right shows what the poor Carthaginian player sees (can't click on city).
Both the Zulu and Carthaginian players see Zulu and Carthaginian units in the city.

Attachment: berlin.png
This has been downloaded 154 time(s).

	05-11-2002 12:26									#8
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@Solo
No hack job. El Greco assures that he got this results with an accelerated start on a small map.

	05-11-2002 21:02									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, seem like I really found out a knot-known bug.

It's not cheated. I just made an accelerated start (2000 bc) on the small world map to test how the game will react (we all know how small THAT world map is). By the third or fourth time i got that as a result. You can test it for yourself. Take these settings:

Difficulty: one of the easier, because you can choose to start at 2000 bc on the easy levels, where there is a greater chance for this bug to appear.

Seven civs

and of course accelerated start.

Note: this is only possible if the starting positions are not randomized. Otherwise, you'll propably won't start with the number of opponents you have choosen.

	05-11-2002 21:10									#10
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It's a bug, not a hack.

I saw the same thing using 'accelerated start' on the premade small world map. Weird.

Oops, sorry Greco, posted before I saw your reply, Thanks for this oddity, a new one to me.

	05-11-2002 21:23									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Speaking of oddities ... I saw one in a recent game. I discovered a hut near the Zulu capitol on a plains square which had been irrigated and roaded.

How did the AI do that without tipping the hut?

Attachment: hut.jpg
This has been downloaded 135 time(s).

	05-11-2002 23:18									#12
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Nothing is ever certain in the game. Yesterday I received a Nomad from a hut on a plains square

---------------------------------------

SG(2)

	06-11-2002 01:23									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Nothing is ever certain in the game. Yesterday I received a Nomad from a hut on a plains square SG(2)

Why not ?

	06-11-2002 04:19									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

JCP ... until then I had always believed that Advanced Tribes came from plains/grassland tiles and nomads came from the other terrain types.

------------------------------

SG(2)

	06-11-2002 05:44									#15
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Okay, I belive.

Come to think of it, the designers of the accelerated start were not restricted by the rules enforced upon us players and the map editor. Very little time for debugging that section of software, I guess!

If the accelerated start feature can be used with a custom map, it might be some fun to make one with just a spot or two of land, just to see where all the cities might end up.

	10-11-2002 02:26									#16
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quote: Another strange CIV-Story - you wouldn't believe it.

Another one:

When I disbanded a city the city menu of another civ displayed itself. I looked at it and closed it and that was it. It was a civ I had no contact with.

I'm sure this has happened to ppl before, but I'm posting it anyways...

	10-11-2002 04:38									#17
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by solo Maybe someone familiar with hex editing save files can tell us wether this effect might be possible by hacking a save file, since even the map editor will not allow two cities to be placed adjacent to each other. I suspect a hack job, and it could be that another might explain those sightings of 5 specials in one city. Either that, or just an unusual, but unreproducible glitch.

In fact, it's very easy to hack it. Although I believe El Greco, I wan to show how easy it is. Here I have attached a stadt2.sav with Seville and Berlin on the same square (I move the city of Seville to Berlin, but not the units that were on Seville. I'm very lazy )

	11-11-2002 07:20									#18
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Earlier this year there was a thread in the Scenario League forum about how to manipulate this to your advantage. By changing all terrain to desert or glacier, one could position two starting cities in a way to produce second cities on adjacent tiles. For instance, Buda on one square, Pest on the neighboring square. Edit the terrain back, and it played as normal. Somebody else found a way to produce the case of two cities on the same square, as well. Tho that did lead to problems - one civ's units could leave but not return, the first settled city was unconquerable, etc.

	11-11-2002 15:06									#19
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samson re: your irrigated & roaded hut

It seems that the AI gets some terrain improvements of this kind without the need to actually deploy settlers to the task - just another way the AI cheats in order to lose more slowly

SG[1]

	11-11-2002 18:30									#20
	Put an end to popups!

Thanks, SG.

Yeah, you're right. I went back and looked at an earlier save and the irrigation and road appears before the Zulus even had a settler.