04-11-2002 13:30									#1
	will i like MoO3? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

hi there

sorry, i have never played any version of MoO, nor have i ever seen it. while wanting to order civ3ptw, amazon.co.uk recommends to also get moo3.

so my question: would i like moo3? [i always loved TBS (especially the civilization-series), liked ascendancy (a turn based game with research, building, combat, etc in a galaxy)]. should i order it in your opinion?

thanks!

sabrewolf

	04-11-2002 13:39									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

It is a distinct possibility that you would like MoO3.
It might be worth it to try out MoO 1 and 2 too, although I'm not sure of their availability.

	04-11-2002 16:11									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Imho the MoO games have been distinctly superior to the Civ games.

MoO1 has reached abandonware stage but may or may not be available for download depending on how aggressive the company is about defending decade old code. MoO2 is still floating around in budget compilations. Both are still extremely playable (but I have to disable sound to get MoO1 to run in a Dos window these days...)

	04-11-2002 20:58									#4
	Remove this text

I remember that on the MoO3 Page the so to call betaAncestor is downloadable. cant remember the Name now though
In my Opinion Civ always was less complex on the surface than MoO. In Civ you always had the Option to get deeper into the Game figure out some formulas etc. in Master of Orion it was very hard to play without going into micromanaging everything.

	04-11-2002 21:32									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I agree, but also realize that in Civ you are dealing with roughly 30 cities tops in a large game. In Orion, you would be dealing with up to 5 planets (cities) per system. Therefore in a large game, you might have 20 systems. Mirco-management hell.

What is so hard to balance in any TBS SF game is having something accurate (systems with planets and moons) with something accesible (managing each one).

Hopefully QS has put together a good balance between both. IMO, this is what will make or break the game.

	04-11-2002 22:31									#6
	Re: will i like MoO3? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf hi there sorry, i have never played any version of MoO, nor have i ever seen it. while wanting to order civ3ptw, amazon.co.uk recommends to also get moo3. so my question: would i like moo3? [i always loved TBS (especially the civilization-series), liked ascendancy (a turn based game with research, building, combat, etc in a galaxy)]. should i order it in your opinion? thanks! sabrewolf

I would expect you would enjoy either game. Many civ players play Moo as well, not to mention of know several that play Ascendancy (me). That is why Moo is on this board.

	04-11-2002 23:25									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Mr. Orange In Orion, you would be dealing with up to 5 planets (cities) per system. Therefore in a large game, you might have 20 systems. Mirco-management hell.

Like Civ, it would be very unlikely that you needed to visit many of them. I always found the build queues and information reports more than adequate to keep on top of the tweaking. Now if you're the sort of person who has to double check the allocation of each new worker, I can't help you

	04-11-2002 23:38									#8
	Tired of ads?

actually, that's one thing (probably the only thing) i hated about ascendancy: micromanagement. it's just tedious to build always the same things on 100 different planets. specially terraforming, etc. was a pain in the neck.

but otoh, so is civ3 (on larger maps)

	04-11-2002 23:57									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yeah, its not like you had to build one research lab per planet, you had to build one on each blue square and connect them up. If only the AI could have done that sensibly for you it would have been a classier game.

	05-11-2002 00:00									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

You're gonna like MoO. MoO, MoM and X-Com represent some sort of peak of TBS gaming. Unfortunately, only MoO2 is easy to get to run on modern machines. MoO3, if done right, should last us well into the next decade.

	05-11-2002 01:54									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf actually, that's one thing (probably the only thing) i hated about ascendancy: micromanagement. it's just tedious to build always the same things on 100 different planets. specially terraforming, etc. was a pain in the neck. but otoh, so is civ3 (on larger maps)

This is so painfully true. The need to do so much, is what makes it long periods before I go back and fire up another Ascendancy. You have to terraform black squares, place everything by hand. I loved the ships battles and blasting the planets, but it is tedious.

Moomin, I have no problems getting any of those games to run on every Windows platform since DOS, except Win2000. Win2000 is a gamers worse nightmare. It is strange as I got Moo and the rest to run on NT and XP.

	05-11-2002 04:05									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold Like Civ, it would be very unlikely that you needed to visit many of them. I always found the build queues and information reports more than adequate to keep on top of the tweaking.

The trouble is, the build queue in Moo2 isn't deep enough, and there's no option for saving a template to re-use in getting a planet off the ground.

	05-11-2002 04:17									#13
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Moomin, I have no problems getting any of those games to run on every Windows platform since DOS, except Win2000. Win2000 is a gamers worse nightmare. It is strange as I got Moo and the rest to run on NT and XP.

strange... i am pleased with win2k and can get a lot of DOS-games running (to be honest, i didn't try too many).

for me with win95/98 it was nearly impossible to get anything working, except if you started in DOS-mode.
and NT4 seemed to have a completly other API than the other OS's, because you didn't even think to try a get the games to run.

havn't tried XP yet...

	05-11-2002 04:36									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Oh, I know you can get the games to run, and that they sometimes do so without any trouble whatsoever. But the numbers of questions and threads on how to run MoM over in classic games seem to indicate that some luck is involved.

	05-11-2002 05:47									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Heck, I've been able to get old DOS games like Castles II and Warlords II to run on my Win95 machine, but couldn't get Dune II to run to save my scalp. It's a crap shoot.

Every time I think of the eventual necessity to switch over to W2k or XP makes me cringe.

	05-11-2002 07:21									#16
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I had Warlords II running on Win98SE on P4 system. Anyway the reason I say that is on many boards, I see lots of W2K users saying that game xyz is not working for them. You do not see that for Win98 and hardly for XP either. You see people failing to get a game going and get some help and they are off and running. I never boot to DOS. Yes lots of user on many platforms fail, but it is only user problems on Win98. Often it is the users on XP, but many knowledgeable users fail on some games on W2K. The kernnel is the same basically for NT/W2k/XP, but the API's are not. NT4.0 had many problems without SP1 or higher. Anyway I have had Moo running on Dos 4/5/6, OS2/ NT4/ME/Win95/Win98 and XP PRO, so I am sure it can be done.

	05-11-2002 08:55									#17
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Don't forget that hardware can also make a difference. My two systems are a perfect example of this.

My main system is a P3 800 on a MB with built-in sound, but where I'm actually using a SB PCI512 for audio. Windows mode games in Win98 work fine. To run anything thats DOS/legacy, I've got to disable sound.

My older(currently unused) backup system is a P2 233 with no onboard sound and an older wimpier PCI sound card. On the exact same install of Win98, I had no troubles with sound in DOS games.

The issue is not the OS, it's a hardware conflict that despite being very knowledgeable I can do nothing about.

Personally, I am just waiting for the day that someone releases a 486/DOS emulator for XP/2k or their replacement, because I expect the old games will still be popular for years to come.

	05-11-2002 10:48									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

True sound can be a bit tricky, but I do not count that as you can get the SB card and the drivers and make most any game get the sound. All the games I have are playing with sound using an on the MB sound in XP PRO.
MoM was the trickiest. Moo has not had sound on have the pc's I ever had, but that was because I did not care. it is working now. The first 2 yrs I had the game, I palyed with no sound, so I do not even turn it on most of the time.
I have had more than 2 dozen pc's since Moo came out and another dozen at work and I got it to play on ever one of them from 386 on up to P4 and AMD 2100+.

	08-11-2002 06:28									#19
	Support Apolyton

I'm about to give MoM a try on my sys....

(Does that sound Freudian or what? )

If it doesn't work at first, should I mess with the Properties of a comand line or something?

Any tricks to get the game going?

	08-11-2002 06:40									#20
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Here is a a few thing to consider:

Do you get an error msg, but can not see it has it flashes by?

Right click on the exe and select properties and then Program tab. Clear the close on exit box. This will allow the dos window to remain open so you can see the msg.


Was it a memory issue?

Go to the exe properties select Mem tab. Set the three drop downs to the highest values. Check protected and use HMA boxes.

Does the game require EMS?

If so you should create copies of the Config.Nt and Autoexec.NT files and put them in the directory of that game.
Edit the Config.NT file and check the box for compatible timer. I have not need the autoexec so far, so change the Config filename to point to the new one you are creating. In this file add EMM=RAM after dos=high statement. This will force emulation of EMS memory.
Other items may require changs to Config or even Autoexec and will likely be defined in the install doc for that game, I have not required any so far and all of my games are runningat this time, but I may buy others later.

It could be that you need to go to the compat tab and select run in compat mode for Win95. A game that requires 256 colors may need that box checked.
Misc tab you should look at the Exclusive mode for the mouse. Resolution 640 may be required for some.

Windows XP has a tool that can be downloaded to test various setting for desperate situations.

Good Luck.