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Rogan Josh
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I am curious to see if there is any correlation between whether or not people believe in the concepts of 'free-will', the 'soul' and 'God'.
Let me make my definitions of the terms a little clearer.
Free-will: by this I mean, the ability of you personally to determine your own actions. Do you believe that you are a sentient entity who can make decisions (and have independent thought) or do you believe that your actions are completely constrained by the physical state in which you find yourself. (in other words, your brain works in a fully (perhaps quantum mechanical) deterministic way, just like any other physical object).
Soul: Do you believe that there is any part of yourself which is in any way separate from your physical body? Or are you simply the sum of all your cells, neurons and whatever which we traditionally think of as your 'body'.
God: By 'God' I mean an omnipotent being who is sentient and capable of making descisions - so I do not include some philosophical princile or scientific law etc. It need not be the Christian God however.
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Jon Miller
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yes
no
yes
Jon Miller
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Kepler
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Lovely Oregon
Jul 2002
time: 21:23
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I believe I'd qualify your definitions somewhat if I had written the poll, but I'll vote within your limits so all the votes are describing the same apples.
Free will: yes
Soul: no
God: no
My main problem is soul. Any meaningful definition of the self for me includes the interconnections of that self with others. Man separate from his emotional dependency upon and influence on others is not the same sort of "self" that we observe running around in a social environment. When my physicality ceases to function as a living person, there's a part of me that goes on in all the ways I've influenced those whom I love. I don't believe in the religious literalism of an existential part of identity that is yet not physical, however. Since I think that's implied by your definition, I voted no, but according to my definition yes we clearly have souls.
Free will has the usual quasi-quantum muddle about determinism (IMHO, a classic case of mistaking the map for the territory), but even if that's right then it's still statistical so I choose to call the aggregation of statistical influences free will, and the heck with the man who says oytherwise. 
God isn't a sentient being. If all sentient beings disappeared from the universe, God would disappear as well. That is, God is a figure of speech for all the "why" questions and answers implied by self-aware existence. Since you meant an actual being with an actual non-theoretical existence indepedent of us when we talk about God, then nope -- to me that's a well-meaning and socially-useful Tooth Fairy.
Last edited by Kepler on 04-11-2002 at 14:56
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Rogan Josh
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
Well, you can view your brain as a massive feedback system. I think freewill implies a seperate "you" that's not affected by the physical world; i.e. a soul. |
I agree with this statement. I think that free-will implies the existence of a soul. Ramo and I then differ in the starting assumption - since he does not believe in free-will he need not believe in a soul, whereas I do believe I have free-will, so I must have a soul.
BTW quantum physics is deterministic in the sense that all the probabilities of things happening are definied/fixed by the initial conditions. There is no way a purely physical object (ie. one that obeys the laws of quantum mechanic itself) can effect the evolution of the system.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Rogan Josh Free-will: by this I mean, the ability of you personally to determine your own actions. Do you believe that you are a sentient entity who can make decisions (and have independent thought) or do you believe that your actions are completely constrained by the physical state in which you find yourself. (in other words, your brain works in a fully (perhaps quantum mechanical) deterministic way, just like any other physical object). |
I believe that we are "largely electrically and chemically controlled ... highly animallike" in our "common behavior" and "emotional" in our "ordinary reactions". However I do believe that we are able to rise above our animalike reactions and instincts, and exercise true "free-will" from time to time.
quote:
Soul: Do you believe that there is any part of yourself which is in any way separate from your physical body? Or are you simply the sum of all your cells, neurons and whatever which we traditionally think of as your 'body'. |
The soul is the real you. The rest is just a monkey-body that you inhabit for a short time.
quote:
God: By 'God' I mean an omnipotent being who is sentient and capable of making descisions - so I do not include some philosophical princile or scientific law etc. It need not be the Christian God however. |
All religions worship the same God, they just give him different names, and have varying degrees of success in discerning his true nature.
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Lincoln
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God is in control of even our will. I would not use the word 'free' therefore to describe our will. But there is a will of mankind and a will of God and mankind ultimately causes God's will to be done whether he wants to or not.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
God is in control of even our will. I would not use the word 'free' therefore to describe our will. But there is a will of mankind and a will of God and mankind ultimately causes God's will to be done whether he wants to or not. |
So what you're saying is that we have freewill, but all things work together for good. I can agree with that.
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Lars-E
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Sounds like predestination, Lincoln...
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04-11-2002 13:48
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