05-11-2002 05:10									#1
	Fanboys and Whiners Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

This release of PtW has unleashed a torrent of debate over whether people have been screwed or not.

Either way, you knew what you were buying and you new the previous release history of Civ III.

If you are disappointed, serves you right, you should have had a pretty good idea what to expect.

If this game never gets patched properly, it will serve the "fanboys" right, for placing faith in something that may not be possible.

I am the third type, I learned after the initial release of Civ III and will await developments in the patch process. If the game gets better I may buy it, if it doesn't, I will not.

Just like a Firaxian told me once, you show your support by buying the game, whether you support them or not.


ACK!

	05-11-2002 05:47									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'm with you all the way Tuber! If they fool you once shame on them; if they fool you twice shame on you. I didn't like buying Civ3 and then having to wait 6 months for them to release a patch that made the game enjoyable to play.

With PtW I've refused to fall into the same pit twice. I'm not going to buy it until the MP works properly that way Firaxis has some incentive to make more then a token patch. This time they're not going to get my money until all the little details are sorted out.

	05-11-2002 05:52									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Even without previous history, the game had hardly hit the shelves before Firaxis came up and said "Give us a moment, we're working on it."

Personally, I don't care much one way or another if the netplay is functional or not functional or won't be functional for another few weeks. Buying a Civ game for netplay makes about as much sense to me as buying a toaster for washing the dishes with. Doing it and then complaining about it strikes me as being about the same either way, too. :P

	05-11-2002 05:52									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Uhh... Be more specific when you talk about the release of Civ3.

I bought it within like a week of it going gold, Civ3 that is, and it was fine. I was absurdly much more happy with it than I am with PTW.

	05-11-2002 05:57									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree with you about people whining about the game. I could sit here and point out all of the little things that are buggy while playing CivIII and PTW, but I don't, because to me, the bottom line is that both games are very enjoyable and the bugs do not take away that much from the game.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. That's why reviews should be read before you spend money on something your not 100% sure about. I knew I wanted CivIII and PTW, so I bought them, and I have no regrets even if I have to patch it. That's the beauty of PC games.

	05-11-2002 06:03									#6
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Well, your "categories" for people sound narrowminded to me, but I agree with the point of your post.

	05-11-2002 06:06									#7
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Well, your "categories" for people sound narrowminded to me, but I agree with the point of your post.

They aren't my "categories". They are what I have read on this forum.

If anybody mentions something they don't like they are declared "whiners".

If anybody mentions they like it, they are immediately declared "fanboys".

If they are narrowminded, blame the forum, not me.

ACK!

	05-11-2002 06:10									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by [FX]Roman Uhh... Be more specific when you talk about the release of Civ3. I bought it within like a week of it going gold, Civ3 that is, and it was fine. I was absurdly much more happy with it than I am with PTW.

You should have been here a year ago, complaints were a lot more widespread than they are today.

Most people had problems with the game, but a lot of those problems have been fixed.

I gave up on Civ III after about a month and didn't start playing again until 1.29f.

Did you play previous versions or SMAC? A lot of people's feelings about Civ III are colored by Civ1, Civ 2, and SMAC.


ACK!

	05-11-2002 06:20									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski You should have been here a year ago, complaints were a lot more widespread than they are today. Most people had problems with the game, but a lot of those problems have been fixed. I gave up on Civ III after about a month and didn't start playing again until 1.29f. Did you play previous versions or SMAC? A lot of people's feelings about Civ III are colored by Civ1, Civ 2, and SMAC. ACK!

I remember those days. Some of the earliest "whiner & fanboy" threads were pretty funny, but after awhile it degenerated into something very ugly. Comparatively speaking, this forum has been very tame. I guess it's all been said already.

	05-11-2002 06:31									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's Civ. I'm buyin' it. My risk. I know that.

If I get jobbed by a lack of support, I would hold off on that developer's titles in future. Unless it was a Civ title. That I'd buy 'cause I'm a fan of Civ. Period.

If that makes me a fan boy, tough. I am.

	05-11-2002 06:31									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

They should have called it Civilisation III: Play the Fool.



If you people like multiplayer, get a copy of Civ 2 MP and come on down and join us for a game on the civ 2 MP forum

	05-11-2002 06:54									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse They should have called it Civilisation III: Play the Fool.

Why? We can't play you yet since you don't have it.

	05-11-2002 07:01									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Why? We can't play you yet since you don't have it.

That's the funniest thing I have heard all day.
And Probably the funniest thing I will hear all week.

	05-11-2002 07:04									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

hey, what about the fourth type? Those of us who are fanboys, AND like PtW. It's the best of both worlds. You don't get disappointed, and ya don't have to worry about problems getting fixed (besides the typical bug fixes and and fixing of mistakes).



And then there's the people who have never tried and Civ

	05-11-2002 07:08									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Sheik That's the funniest thing I have heard all day. And Probably the funniest thing I will hear all week.

If that's the funniest thing you'll hear all week you should get a life fanboy

	05-11-2002 07:09									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse They should have called it Civilisation III: Play the Fool. If you people like multiplayer, get a copy of Civ 2 MP and come on down and join us for a game on the civ 2 MP forum

Because, it's like drinking grape juice after tasting wine.

ACK!

	05-11-2002 07:38									#17
	Put an end to popups!

Ahhh, nostalgia.

I never did get really into Civ 2, nor Civ 3 for that matter. Once it seems that Firaxis have sorted out the PtW problems I might buy it (and is seems that Gamespy is the problem), but until then my $ are staying right where they are.

	05-11-2002 07:46									#18
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Ahhh, nostalgia. I never did get really into Civ 2, nor Civ 3 for that matter. Once it seems that Firaxis have sorted out the PtW problems I might buy it (and is seems that Gamespy is the problem), but until then my $ are staying right where they are.

I didn't even bother installing Gamespy. I've used it before and it sucks the big one. If you value your firewall (i.e. your security), then Gamespy's a poor choice. The only way I could ever get Gamespy to work properly was to disable my firewall, which is an inordinately stupid thing to do no matter how you slice it.

If you're waiting for Firaxis to sort out that particular problem, you won't be buying PTW until you start collecting social security. Maybe direct IP will help, but who knows?

	05-11-2002 07:58									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I do not think the fanboys (for the most part) mind that people have complaints, just that they are plastered all over the place and are redundant. I do not mind seeing legit problems raised or even a rant, but the 35th time gets tedious. If they put them all one or two threads, it would be great, no they slam them into nearly all of the threads. Some people have to run into them and they do not even have PTW.

	05-11-2002 08:22									#20
	Got spare money?

That's true, that's my biggest complaint about the whole thing is they will complain in every thread, and the "fanboys", so to speak, ALWAYS defend the game.

I don't even have PtW yet, but I'm hearing that it has enough improvements for SP, that I'm likely to get it.

ACK!

	05-11-2002 08:24									#21
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I always thought the place for complaints and problems was in the bug thread. Or in the Civ3 help forum.

Or in the alternative, have a thread with constructive criticism, ala discussion over the late game tedium. Which led to the group movement feature.

I don't understand the expectation that it will work perfectly out of the box. Maybe I've been unlucky in the past, but it seems like I've had to tweak my computers for NEARLY EVERY GAME I've ever purchased. I've had hardware problems, OS problems, RAM problems, Video Card problems, patch problems etc. etc. etc. but I played with the computer, read the readmes and the online helps, and I've gotten everything working. Now that I have a semi new 1.7ghz Dell, I don't have many software problems, but I still tweak by getting rid of the background programs.

For me, civ3 and PTW have worked fairly well. I have played several mp games to the end, but I admit that its not perfect. it has flaws, which are being addressed. If you can't get a feature to work, there are people here that can help you. And what isn't working is being patched, like it was when Civ3 was originally released.

I fail to see how calling Firaxis idiots or retards is constructive. Maybe I just expect a level of maturity that some can't display in an anonymous forum.

Thanks

	05-11-2002 15:22									#22
	Inflate your Upload Space

To all the whiners:

GIVE ME A GOOD ALTERNATIVE GAME

I am always willing to learn.

	05-11-2002 15:41									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I fail to see how calling Firaxis idiots or retards is constructive. Maybe I just expect a level of maturity that some can't display in an anonymous forum.

	05-11-2002 15:53									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm confused by people who seem to confuse problems with the entire computer software and technology industry with Firaxian errors. Anyone who gets a copy of any software on the day of release is going to get burned in some way as I see it. Software industries unfortunately see the period after release as a major part of development.

I'm not defending Firaxis here, just a little suprised by all the people who are suprised.

	05-11-2002 16:05									#25
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by georges bonbon To all the whiners: GIVE ME A GOOD ALTERNATIVE GAME I am always willing to learn.

Civ II Mp

	05-11-2002 17:25									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Civ II Mp

Alpha Centauri.

	05-11-2002 17:58									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If anybody hates PtW, feels screwed, and wants to post me their copy, it will be gratefully received.

If you want to stick stupid conditions on the offer, that's fine too.

IW
-"will do stupid stuff for money and PtW"

	05-11-2002 19:03									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hmmn ... I think some of you are overlooking a key point ...

When Civ 3 came out ... it made the claim it was the next generation of Civ ... and althought it could have been cleaned up a bit ... it still was playable ... in fact, I never installed any of the patches (didn't want to corrupt games in progress for the most part) .. and yes ... I got a bit frustrated at a few things, but in the end, the game was both playable and enjoyable ... and most importantly, lived up to it's claims ...

Now ... the problem with PTW ... is that on its cover ... it says MULTIPLAYER ... in big bold letters ... It does not say:

"MULTIPLAYER plus or minus 5% of the time if you're lucky under unexplained and unknown circumstances that we're working on and hope to have it fixed at some point in the future for some of you but we're not making any promises and do not recomend you holding your breath ... but we promise a new expantion pack with units with blue faces for those of you who do hold your breaths for too long"

lol ... the fact remains ... for me ... Civ3 was playable and enjoyable out of the box (even if it was far from perfect) ... and the key selling point for PTW (Multiplayer) ... is not even functional out of the box !!!

To me ... that is a BIG difference !!!

Anyhow ... let's just hope they get things fixed before a class action suit is started !!! lol

	05-11-2002 19:24									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by DJ RRebel lol ... the fact remains ... for me ... Civ3 was playable and enjoyable out of the box (even if it was far from perfect) ... and the key selling point for PTW (Multiplayer) ... is not even functional out of the box !!! To me ... that is a BIG difference !!! Anyhow ... let's just hope they get things fixed before a class action suit is started !!! lol

Actually, I disagree with you on that point, though you have made a good argument overall. For me, MP wasn't the key selling point for PTW, rather it was addition of 8 civs and a few new units.

Unlike you, I had nothing but problems with Civ3 out of the box (1.07f). My problems were so severe that Firaxis offered to send me a no-cd patch, something I had never needed with any other title. However, before they could send it to me they released 1.16f, which solved whatever problem I was having.

With PTW, I haven't experienced one crash, bug, or glitch. To me, because I'm partial to SP, that's the key difference between the two. Therefore, I'm satisfied with the product thus far.

For those who want this game solely for MP, they probably are better off waiting for the next patch. If Firaxis' track record regarding fixing outstanding problems with Civ3 is any indication of how they'll address the ones in PTW, then I'm confident that they will remedy whatever problems exist.

	05-11-2002 20:27									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by [FX]Roman I bought it within like a week of it going gold, Civ3 that is, and it was fine. I was absurdly much more happy with it than I am with PTW.

I bought Civ3 the day it arrived in stores, and thought it was just fine. I enjoyed it when I bought it and still enjoy playing it.

I have not bought PtW yet and I'm glad I didn't. I'll wait for the problems to be sorted....