06-11-2002 19:31									#1
	WoW Discussion Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It's important that we agree on our civ's wonder goals, since this will directly affect our tech path. We know we will need Apollo to reach the stars. That's a given, but very far away.

Currently, we have: Mike's Chapel (happiness)
Leo's Workshop (unit upgrades) and
Adam Smith's Trading Co. (maintenance-free low-level infrastructure)

Presntly available WoWs are Great Library and Oracle. I recommend against pursuing these. GL is worthless to the tech leader, and the Oracle is of limited use (expires).

Currently researching Medicine, which will allow Shakespeare's Theatre. This WoW only affects one city, so I rarely use it. Considering the massive land area of our empire, I doubt we could use it effectively.

Other possibilities include --

King Richard's Crusade. This will greatly increase our shield production, but lasts only until Industrialization (which the AI will immediately race toward).

Magellan's Expedition. All ships gain +2 movement.
Requires: Astronomy, then Navigation.
Minister says: This looks like a land-based game, let's skip it.

JS Bach's Cathedral. A happy WoW (well technically, a "contentment" wonder). Affects only same continent as the city it's built in.
Requires: Theology IIRC, which we should be able to study next if we want.
Science Minister is neutral on this one.

Darwin's Voyage. Gives 2 free tech advances.
Requires: Bridge Building, Navigation, Physics, Steam Engine, Railroad.
Highly recommended.

United Nations. Enforces all proposed peace treaties, allows non-anarchy govt. changes.
Requires: Railroad (see above), then Industrialization, then Communism.
Highly recommended. Why? Because we'll have more Peace while buildiing spaceship parts!

Isaac Newton's College. doubles science output of city it's built in.
Requires: Astronomy, then Theory of Gravity.
Science ministry usually loves this WoW, but it is less useful without colossus and Cope's (Celts have both). Still, it would be great in a city with many trade arrows.

Hoover Dam. Provides Hydro Power to all cities = many shields!
Requires: Electronics, which requires Electricity, which requires a lot of stuff we don't have.
Recommendation: Set this as a long-term goal for our spaceship construction program.

SETI. yields a research lab in every city.
Requires: Computers -- and many other techs we don't have.
Recommendation -- This is a worthy goal to increase our research rate, but is hard to attain until late in the game.

OTHER WoWs...
If we feel we need more happiness, we can consider Cure For Cancer and perhaps Women's Suffrage.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
The Science Ministry requests...
that the ppl speak their minds on this important topic.
I will publish two polls -- one for short-term wonders, and one for long-term goals.

	06-11-2002 21:10									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

A note on a few of the Wonders:

The Japanese already have King Richard's.

The UN doesn't allow government changes; that's the Statue of Liberty. But the UN does let a democracy declare war 50% of the time.

The "continent-only" descriptions in the game are wrong. As far as I know, all the "continent-only" Wonders (like Bach's) actually cover the whole civ.

	06-11-2002 21:37									#3
	Re: WoW Discussion Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit Presntly available WoWs are Great Library and Oracle. I recommend against pursuing these. GL is worthless to the tech leader......

I disagree, what if the Chinese get it? they'll be riding on your coattails util we get eleacte.

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit Magellan's Expedition. All ships gain +2 movement. Requires: Astronomy, then Navigation. Minister says: This looks like a land-based game, let's skip it......

Yes, but, it will be quicker to chinese cities for trade

	06-11-2002 23:43									#4
	Re: Re: WoW Discussion Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I disagree, what if the Chinese get it? they'll be riding on your coattails util we get eleacte.

The idea is that while we are now one step ahead of the AI in research we will greatly increase that lead in the next few turns. The GL only works if TWO civs have a particular tech so if we are 3-5 tech advances ahead of the next leading civ then it will be a long time before the GL is of benefit to a rival, and by that time we will have increased our lead further.

We may have robotics and the Japanese have the GL but if no one else knows robotics the GL does no good.

	07-11-2002 02:19									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I sometimes get GL even if I am ahead in techs strictly as a preventive measure. But I'm not sure even that is worth the cost. The AI civs will trade to get whatever techs they need anyway.

Magellan's would be helpful for trading and exploring. We can't survive with just Trireme's forever anyway. Galleons and Frigates would be nice to have, and if we don't advance our trading capacity and speed, our Caravan-carrying Triremes will start to get attacked and sunk.

	07-11-2002 02:30									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I agree, We need some better naval units both for increaseing trade and for exploring for other civs. But IIRC then isn't another civ allready constructing magellans?

	07-11-2002 02:56									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

No civ we have met has or is researching navigation. I don't recall seeing any "travellers reports" of a civ building Magellan's. I can't be certain, though, because I thought I saw a caravel shape while the AI civ moves flashed past at the start of the last turn or two. If anyone is building Magellan's, I suppose it would be the Celts (who seem to be hot on our trail according to the Powergraph).

	07-11-2002 03:50									#8
	Re: WoW Discussion Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit Currently researching Medicine, which will allow Shakespeare's Theatre. This WoW only affects one city, so I rarely use it. Considering the massive land area of our empire, I doubt we could use it effectively.

I think we can. Becouse it completely eliminates unhappyness we can station a good size expedition force there.

We can bribe all de NON defence we need but units like vet cannons and artilery we'll probably have to build ourselves

Darwins, Isaac and seti might come in handy too

	07-11-2002 03:54									#9
	Re: Re: Re: WoW Discussion Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Zedd The idea is that while we are now one step ahead of the AI in research we will greatly increase that lead in the next few turns. The GL only works if TWO civs have a particular tech so if we are 3-5 tech advances ahead of the next leading civ then it will be a long time before the GL is of benefit to a rival, and by that time we will have increased our lead further. We may have robotics and the Japanese have the GL but if no one else knows robotics the GL does no good.

I agree, let someone else build it, it expires at electricity anyway.

	07-11-2002 13:10									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

ummmm... considering we are set for the stars this time around, thinking into the future, would not the Apollo Program be worth the cost of developing?

	07-11-2002 15:15									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I think that the best WoW to go for would be Darwin's Voyage. Gives 2 free tech advances.
Requires: Bridge Building, Navigation, Physics, Steam Engine, Railroad.
Highly recommended.

as it will allow a very big technology lead!

	07-11-2002 19:09									#12
	Got spare money?

Avoid WoW with effects in only one city (Newton, K Richard...)!
OK for Darwin's for science, but GL is of poor use in our situation, exept to prevent another civ to progress too quickly.
And we need WoWs for happiness in democracy, and UN help diplomacy, as a relay of MarcoPolo.

	07-11-2002 19:31									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I agree with cavebear that we shouldn't entrust our navy to triremes. Magellan's will make a considerable difference in exploiting seapower. If we can get our caravans to market quickly and safely, our research will benefit tremendously!

At this point in the game, building GL will be a waste.

	08-11-2002 05:51									#14
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Having just joined, I'm on a steep learning curve to catch up with the game....

It seems we're No1 in tech, with the possible No2 unseen as yet. With our Reputation Dishounorable (Oh Boy, I love a good war! I love several wars even more!! ) we're not going to be making peace and trading knowledge , we want quick conquest of a couple of cities to put them in their place, and get in amongst them in their homeland to keep them occupied. Therefore we need Darwin to keep us ahead in the tech race, and armed with significantly superior units . Then UN to give us the chance to wage war at time of our choosing .

We should try to capture Pyramids for faster expansion before we get Democracy but don't yet have UN.

	08-11-2002 18:56									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

welcome to the C2DG.

It's nice to know we can get advice from Bruce the Stupid. (Great moniker!)