07-11-2002 02:54									#1
	Builder's Team (temporary name) Inflate your Upload Space

Here's the topic on the builder's team, which has been founded by Jack_www.

The Team expects to center its development on building policies rather than aggressive expansionism.

Current members so far :
- Jack_www
- Odin
- ZargonX
- Redstar1
- Spiffor

This thread is intended to discuss several matters (Choice of Civilization, Team-logo, Institutional matters), and to let know our structure to those interested in joining the PtW Demogame.

Welcome !

Last edited by Spiffor on 07-11-2002 at 21:36

	07-11-2002 03:31									#2
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All Builder members! Go vote in the Surplus teams poll!

	07-11-2002 04:39									#3
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Ok, Builders, I guess we have a few questions we need to answer. First, do we want a different name? As exciting as "Builder Team" is, I'm sure we can all come up with something better...

Then, even more important, what Civ do we want? I know there was some earlier discussion, but we should really get some debate going.

Build on!

	07-11-2002 04:55									#4
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I suggest we call ourselves the "Enlightened" or something like that.

As a Civ, Carthaginians are great because of their traits (gotta love Industrious Commercial) and their good early defensive UU which would protect us efficiently against rushes.
As a second choice, Greeks are good, because they have pretty good traits, and can produce their Phalanxes immediately.

Btw, what do you think of the team-logo I suggested in the other thread ?

Attachment: xhamer1.jpg
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	07-11-2002 09:09									#5
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I like the logo! Think it captures the essence of building quite nicely.

I haven't played around with the Cartheginians yet, but I do like their traits. And you raise a good point that we may want something with heft to defend us from any warmongers in the early game...

"Enlightened" sounds good, maybe something like "Free Thinkers" or, er, I ran out of ideas... I think I need to ponder this one a little more and come back with some better thoughts...

Build on!

	07-11-2002 09:21									#6
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Go Spiffor and jack.

You shall have your team if I can help it. And you shall have an opponent, even if it is just me. I'll take ya all on.

	07-11-2002 13:57									#7
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Stonecutters?

	07-11-2002 21:19									#8
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About our institutions, since we aren't many (for now), I suggest a simple and streamlined organization :

Someone (let's say the "president" for now, we'll work catchy names later) plays physically the game. He has a call when there is no order from the ministers handy.

We have a general in chief, who moves all units except workers and settlers

A diplomat in chief, who also cares of trade

A city planner, who also cares of workers

We have a "support minister" who fixes the sliders, decides where to build new cities, decides what science we research, or rather makes plans for this. Not a very shining position, but necessary to keep track of the big picture.

Any decision can be overriden if a 50% majority disagree with it in a poll in a timely manner. The poll must contain an alternative solution.

If there is a problem, misunderstanding and so on, we discuss and find a solution through discussion.

What do you think ?

Let the building begin !

	07-11-2002 21:25									#9
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I put myself forward for Minister of Foreign affairs and trade

	07-11-2002 21:35									#10
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I'd also suggest we make a mock DemoGame before the actual one begins, to see how things work out. WHo's interested ?

	07-11-2002 21:36									#11
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Sounds good. I think we better all have each others email address/icq number to have uor chats. Can't give away strategies here

	07-11-2002 23:49									#12
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Spiffor- that looks like a pretty good structure to work with. I mean, we can of course hammer out all the little details later, but I think that's a great start.

I'd also be up for a mock demo game, get in some practice. This will be my first demo game period, so it's all new to me!

	08-11-2002 00:47									#13
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Well I would not mind playing as the Greeks, I also like the Americans, because we can pick up a lot of early techs.

Spiffor has some good ideas. We should have a congress too, which would approve who gets into what posstion. We should start thinking about who will lead our team against the warmongers that will want to tear us apart.

I know that this might be a little early for this, but I would think that we should start thinking of ways to prevent early attacks. Even though our focus will be building, we will need offensive units early on to counter attack, and I think go for the techs that will give us the best defending unit there is and make sure to build walls.

	08-11-2002 00:59									#14
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Someone should be in charge of collecting all the contact information of all the members of the team then email everyone with the info at the same time.

	08-11-2002 02:18									#15
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If you all want to let me have contact details I'll put them together...

david.archibald@btinternet.com

quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Someone should be in charge of collecting all the contact information of all the members of the team then email everyone with the info at the same time.

	08-11-2002 03:37									#16
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Yeah, I definately think that we should have a contact coordinator to keep things running smoothly.

So, do we feel that we should try and add a few more members, or do we want to keep a relatively small team? I think that if we wanted to have a congress, we should probably have a few more members, otherwise we can just decide amongst ourselves in comittee (or something.)

As for planning, we should probably keep that quiet until we have a more private forum...

	08-11-2002 03:48									#17
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Oh, and just to be somewhat official, I put in my vote for naming us "The Enlightened," and I think Spiffor's logo is great.

I would also be interested in either being the City Planner or the Diplomatic minister.

	08-11-2002 05:06									#18
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Actually, for the name, I've seen this : "light and might". Not very builder, but pretty catchy don't you think ?
I'd probably be interested in being the general... After all, we still need one (warmongers : don't laugh )

	08-11-2002 05:55									#19
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i like the name "The Enlightened" too.
I have been reading up on the Cartheginians and I think that they would be great for us. THey have ok attack and great defense, but they do cost more so that is something we must keep in mind. But then with their UU early in the game we can have one unit be able to do two functions, attack and defend.

	08-11-2002 06:01									#20
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I think we should also let the President handle all foreign policy with other civs. I would also like to be the first President of our team if you guys approve of it.

	08-11-2002 06:25									#21
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Jack_www : I approve you being the first prez. You're the founder, and without you the team would have never existed.
However, I think we should have as many posts as members (at least as long as we're few ; otherwise, we'd have one or two frustrated members). Plus, Foreign + trade is quite some work, and it could rapidly prove overwhelming for the prez -the few chats I've experienced where the FAM missed made the other's jobs pretty difficult.

But, to represent our Civ on the forums, I think the prez is the most fit to do so

	08-11-2002 06:26									#22
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Man... it looks like 3 seperate teams may end up fighting over Carthage... I don't know if they're quite as powerful as all of us seem to think, though... the Greeks are essentialy an equivalent civ (Scientific can be culturally powerful and the Hoplite is significantly cheaper than the Numidian merc)... I figure 2 teams will end up competing for Carthage and the loser could very well end up with Greece... (though Greece may actually be better for a builder strat).

We'll see...

	08-11-2002 06:27									#23
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Arnelos : sure, but Greece isn't industrious, which is a must in a builder strat.

	08-11-2002 09:19									#24
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I put in my vote for Jack as first Pres. Like Spiffor said, this team wouldn't be here without him!

I did notice that several of the teams are after Carthage. So, I think it is in our best interest to have at least two solid, agreeable backups. Though the defensive edge is good for the Greeks, the lack of industrious trait is a severe detriment. How about as a team, we each propose 2 additional favored civs. Then, we can compare lists and see where we agree (And, I'm guessing that the lists won't differ too much anyway...)

	08-11-2002 09:22									#25
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Persia as a 3rd choice would be good :
- Industrious / scientific rules
- Immortals can instill fear to potential ennemies, and can be helpful to enlarge our territory with fewer losses than normal.

	08-11-2002 10:01									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Arnelos : sure, but Greece isn't industrious, which is a must in a builder strat.

Well, then I guess the list of builder-friendly civs would be (all industrious):

Carthage (good)
France (good)
Persia (good)
Ottomons (good)
Egypt (good)
America (fair)
China (mediocre)

I'd suggest that Industrious/Scientific and Industrious/Religious can actually be BETTER than Industrious/Commercial because the commercial trait is really only useful if you build yourself a large and far-flung empire (the reduction in corruption really only surpasses the cost breaks from scientific and religious when you have a number of far-flung metropolises). Since, as a builder civ, you're unlikely to be taking over a significant portion of the map and concentrating on internal development more, commercial is a bit less useful (unless you plan to send settlers off to far-flung places you think you can defend).

Personally, I think commercial is a must-have if you're playing just about any strategy in SINGLE-PLAYER because most of us end up as the dominant power in single-player... but in a multiplayer game, that's hardly assured... in fact, strict probability (there being 4-5 human-controlled civs) is against any specific civ being dominant or even rather large. As such, the cultural boost from scientific and/or religious could be a lot more powerful than the corruption reduction of commercial.

	08-11-2002 10:10									#27
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Well, I don't like France because of it's late, almost useless UU, and above all because of its pinkness
The very interest of Carthage is to have the industrious trait + a good defensive early UU. I agree commercial is likely to be less useful than scientific / religious for our kind of development, but the UU weights heavily... Carthage is still my 1st choice, and Persia is now my 2nd.

	08-11-2002 10:15									#28
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Yeah, that early UU is a nice factor. Weighing in the timing and value of the UUs, I'd say:

Persia (excellent)
Egypt (excellent)
Carthage (good)
Ottomons (good)
China (decent - VERY powerful UU)
France (fair)
America (mediocre)

	08-11-2002 10:38									#29
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We aint gonna 'gnore eny thing like that.... are we? We must make them pay if "they" try anything stupid. Else, I be scared.

Mss

	08-11-2002 10:39									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Persia (excellent) Egypt (excellent) Carthage (good) Ottomons (good) China (decent - VERY powerful UU) France (fair) America (mediocre)

Yep

Mss