08-11-2002 03:01									#1
	Stack Bombardment vs. Auto-Bombardment Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Since the release of Civ 3, one of the features that has been requested was a stacked bombardment feature similar to the one implemented in CTPs 1 & 2. In response to this, Firaxis has implemented the "auto-bombard" feature. For those of you who haven't used it, you set your unit to bombard a certain square every turn and it does so until either the square can't be bombarded or you stop the unit.

The question is, which feature is better? Both features mean that the user has to issue the bombardment order fewer times. But in my opinion the auto-bombard feature has a serious short-coming: time. I generally use prodigious quanitities of artillery, often times several hundred units worth. The auto-bombard feature does mean that, after the first turn, I can just sit back and watch the units perform their action without any input from me. But, even on a P4 1.5GHz computer, it takes almost 10 minutes for the approximately 300 units to complete their bombardments. I'll admit that I probably am the unusual case in having so many units, but I doubt that I am alone.

In my opinion the stacked bombardment would have been a better idea. Telling several bombardment-capable units to all bombard the same square together would, in my opinion, save time and energy. Instead of sitting and watching several units all bombard the same square, one after the other, I could watch one bombardment with a combined outcome (i.e. "4 buildings destroyed, 2 people killed, 5 HPs removed from units").

Any opinions?

	08-11-2002 11:38									#2
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I think this topic needs more attention then its getting.

I was reading last week about some guy that figured out how to STACK-BOMBARD by holding a button and then clicking on the target the number of times you wanted to bombard, but for the life of me I cant find that thread anymore. I tried to experiment with buttons last night but I couldnt figure it out... if anyone can remember the thread or can just refresh my memory - how do you stack-bombard again? TIA.

Auto-bombard is almost useless.

	08-11-2002 11:59									#3
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http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...5101&perpage=20

	08-11-2002 12:10									#4
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...and to answer the question: Yes, what I'd like more to have is stack bombard. Auto-bombard is nice too, but when you have 30, 40 or more artilleries, a stack-bombard feature would be very wellcomed.

	09-11-2002 00:33									#5
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Actually, I find the auto-bombard to be useless. I don't really understand why anyone would want to use it.

I see the primary use of bombardment to be softening up defenders before attacking, to reduce the losses you take in the assault. Knocking them all down to 1 (preferably) or 2 HP means that you'll generally take little or no losses.

This has the two-fold advantage that you don't need to periodically pause and wait for reinforcements, and increased unit survival means more elites and more Great Leaders.

Multiple-turn bombardment isn't very useful. Units heal most or, if in a town with a barracks, all the damage from the previous turn. The idea is to knock them down and eliminate them in one turn.

If you don't have the force to do it, you shouldn't start the attack. You're better off using your forces defensively, picking off the AI's dribbling attacks with them if you're not quite strong enough.

Sure, you can mess up an enemy city with multiple turn bombards, but why do it? You're better off just taking the city.

Bombardment reaches its peak in the industrial age with Artillery. There's a significant period where Infantry is common yet Tanks are not yet available, when the only way to take a city without hideous losses is to bombard.

During this period, I often have a ton of artillery running around, more than I need to take one city. If for some reason I don't quite take a city, the last thing I want to do is set auto-bombard. Next turn I'll have more than enough to knock down all the defenders, and I don't want to use more if it than I have to. I want to move the remaining, unused pieces to the next attack.

It's during this period that I really want Stack Bombard. I have 10-30 pieces knocking down 3-4 infantry, and it's tedious having to hit "B" / click 15+ times, hoping I'll hit the infantry instead of the town. I want a command that will fire all the artillery in the stack until all the defenders have 1 HP, and then stop. I don't want to waste shots reducing the city instead of the troops.

- Gus

	09-11-2002 00:49									#6
	Got spare money?

Wouldn't turning attack animations off eliminate the wait of watching 100 artillery bombarding a city?

Anyways, I find that if you have enough artillery to knock a city's worth of defenders down to 1 hp each, the game is for all intents and purposes won. When there's solid half-dozen or so defenders and you don't have such obscene amounts of artillery to spare on forward assault, pounding the city to town-sized rubble first is an important step.

	09-11-2002 08:47									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You would think that turning off the attack animations would decrease the wait, but it doesn't. I already have the animations off but I still get to watch every single unit auto-bombard something.

Besides which, as GusSmed pointed out, artillery is primarily used by people like us to soften up the defenders of a city before attacking it. Since, due to the healing capabilities of the barrack, that is not something that works well over multiple turns, having the auto-bombard feature doesn't help all that much in these cases. It's the stack-bombard that would really be useful.

	09-11-2002 09:27									#8
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Well, I've noticed that more often than not, when I start to bombard a city, one of the first things that gets destroyed is the barracks. So, in that instance, it is reasonable to stage a multi-turn bombardment to wear down defenders. Plus, sometimes it's just fun to pound a city into rubble, right?

	09-11-2002 10:37									#9
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PEOPLE!!!! Are you not paying attention? Even the person the left me the link I was looking for apparently didnt read it either! There is a stack-bombard feature and this is how you do it:

quote: I haven't tried this with anything but Arty yet, but hold down the 'b' button continuously, and concurrently click on your target as many times as you want it hit (up to the number of Arty you have in position).

It works, I just tested it.

No more complaining, this one is solved, bombard at will!

	09-11-2002 13:40									#10
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quote: Originally posted by ShredZ No more complaining, this one is solved, bombard at will!

Clicking 15-30 times isn't exactly what I would call "solved".

- Gus

	10-11-2002 08:45									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I agree. Clicking 15-20 times isn't much better than just indivually bombarding with 15-20 units. I already spend enough time ordering units around in a turn, I want to be able to order my 15-20 (or more) units to bombard something with two clicks: the first to select "stack-bombard" and the second to select where.

	12-11-2002 14:33									#12
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quote: Originally posted by GusSmed Clicking 15-30 times isn't exactly what I would call "solved". - Gus

Exactly

	16-11-2002 08:50									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

Bump.

	23-11-2002 10:38									#14
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You know, for such a "hot topic", this thread is pretty dead.

	23-11-2002 11:00									#15
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I too would agree stack bombard would be far more of use than aur=to bombard... Even when artys are set at auto bombard, lets say this turn you want to attack the city and the artys are set to auto bombard the city. Since auto units go dead last, that means you'll have to hit 'w' for all active units until auto unit move takes place, while if u had stack bombard u could have accomplished this simple.

	23-11-2002 17:38									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The case against auto-bombardment gets even thicker as I write this. I was playing Civ3:PTW for much of the night and discovered that, annoyingly enough, the auto-bombard feature wasn't working. I tried everything to convince the artillery to continue bombarding the next turn, but it just wouldn't do it on its own. Aargh.

	24-11-2002 07:18									#17
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meriadoc, I agree with you completely. I miss the stack-bombardment feature from CTP, too.

	25-11-2002 04:30									#18
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It didn't worked for me too.

Probably a bug.

But personnaly, I don't miss it either.

	25-11-2002 05:41									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

One of the things missing from Civ/PTW is the option to say "do your 'auto' things now," applicable to the stack that you Right-Click on. This would be helpful for when you have continous bombard or workers on pollution cleanup.

	25-11-2002 12:26									#20
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by ShredZ PEOPLE!!!! Are you not paying attention? Even the person the left me the link I was looking for apparently didnt read it either! There is a stack-bombard feature and this is how you do it: It works, I just tested it. No more complaining, this one is solved, bombard at will!

That's not a "feature" of the game.
That's a "feature" of how your keyboard is "read" by the system.

Open Notepad.
Press and hold the "b" key.

See. Same thing.


I wish there was a game feature for this.
But there's not.
There's a keyboard-input "exploit" that reduces each bombard from 2 clicks (or 1 key+1 click) to 1 click, except for the first one.

Not much of a feature OR a fix, really.

	03-12-2002 05:09									#21
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You're so right Jaybe; maybe a "do your automatic stuff now" button would make auto-bombarding seem easier to use. Now that my artillery has started actually responding to the auto-bombard command again and does it stuff on its own (as far as I can tell, the reason for the auto-bombard function now working when I wrote last time was that the units only had one movement point. The new units all have two.), it would be nice to not have to hit the wait key a couple of dozen times. Or am I just lazy?

	03-12-2002 05:15									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

I'd trash the auto-bombard button in a second if I could get stacked bombardment.

	03-12-2002 06:41									#23
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merry,
A "do your automatic stuff now" button would not be what I had in mind. I would prefer a Right-Click on the stack. The reason is that I might prefer to do my bombardments before/after my worker Shift-P's, or want to take care of different combat theaters separately.
Perhaps both options would be good.

	03-12-2002 07:31									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: PEOPLE!!!! Are you not paying attention? Even the person the left me the link I was looking for apparently didnt read it either! There is a stack-bombard feature and this is how you do it: quote: I haven't tried this with anything but Arty yet, but hold down the 'b' button continuously, and concurrently click on your target as many times as you want it hit (up to the number of Arty you have in position). It works, I just tested it. No more complaining, this one is solved, bombard at will!

	04-12-2002 00:16									#25
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Shr3dZ: At least, if you're going to post the same message twice in the same thread, you could be more a little more polite. Saying "PEOPLE!!!! Are you not paying attention?" is not a good way to make friends.

Jaybe: I see what you mean about not wanting a general do your auto-stuff now button. I hadn't really thought about it that in-depth, although there are times when I wouldn't mind having one. Maybe having both an auto-stuff now and a right-click menu option would be a good idea. Although I still want the stack-bombard.... I wonder if Firaxis is reading this?

	04-12-2002 01:48									#26
	Put an end to popups!

The point of a quote is, it hasnt been changed, if you change it, its NOT A QUOTE! And believe me, I have much bigger worries than making online friends on a civ3 forum seesh.
Obviously ppl skim read, or they just read the latest threads so I was only trying to help... but thx for your input.

	18-12-2002 09:19									#27
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Bump

	18-12-2002 23:49									#28
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by meriadoc You're so right Jaybe; maybe a "do your automatic stuff now" button would make auto-bombarding seem easier to use. ...

Try ctrl-u

	19-12-2002 09:20									#29
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I'm not sure what "ctrl-u" was supposed to do, but it didn't do anything when I tried it. Thank you, though, for the thought.

	19-12-2002 09:24									#30
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I'm not sure what "ctrl-u" was supposed to do, but it didn't do anything when I tried it. I tried it as a stack-bombard function using a stack of artillery and as a "do your automatic stuff" function at the beginning of a turn. Thank you, though, for the thought.