08-11-2002 05:06									#1
	City Planners discussion Increase Your PM Length

I think a minister is responsible for not only using his strengths to aid his constituants but also admit his weakness' and seek competant advise in those more experienced. I do that now

We have some happy issues in our Civ that need to be addressed and I do not have much experience in handleing them. (usually i go into demo ASAP and rep unhappyness doesn't really become an issue)

All cities have a temple and we have Mikes, but we are hovering on disorder i most cities over size 6 or 7. I know not haveing an aquaduct can couse unhappyness if your city doen's POP becouse of it but I don't hink thats whats wron here.

Open discussion I need as many views as i can get on this so wee can make our citizens more content.

	08-11-2002 05:09									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Happy report

Attachment: happy.jpg
This has been downloaded 65 time(s).

	08-11-2002 05:10									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Taxes

Attachment: tax.jpg
This has been downloaded 64 time(s).

	08-11-2002 05:14									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

And just for fun here is the throne room. the Happy report shows some happyness problems But when you check it in the city status all city's size 5 and up are completely red until temple+mikes, size 6 puts then into disorder.

Attachment: throne.jpg
This has been downloaded 64 time(s).

	08-11-2002 05:55									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Throne Room, thats the dumbest thing in Civ2, I pefer building my house.

	08-11-2002 07:40									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

whatever man! the throne room is so cool! Civ3 screwed the idea with building your own castle.

on the subject of hapiness. what hapiness structures are there that we can build?

	08-11-2002 08:00									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i think that the only way we'd get happiness higher would be to up the lux rate, and i don't really want to do that. other than that, a WoW would help, like Suffrage or cure for cancer

	08-11-2002 13:16									#8
	Throne room Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'm new to this
We have all these cities
And lots of wonders
Why is the throne room so retarded?

	08-11-2002 14:54									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Bigger trade routes will help with happiness along with markets

	08-11-2002 18:03									#10
	Re: Throne room Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by rjmatsleepers ..........Why is the throne room so retarded?

Because I trun it off, the throne room updates, (yes you can shut it off, and I was the 1st Pres. of this game.)

	08-11-2002 18:28									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Marketplaces are also helpful toward happiness. (The Science Ministry would like to see Libraries and Universities for all those tasy extra research beakers.)

In general terms, now that Adam Smith is in town, we should be working toward getting all core infrastructure in place (markets, libraries, etc) since we get their multiplier effects (+50%) at no cost. The sooner we do that, the more free beakers and GP we get. This must be balanced against camel production, defense, blahblah.

btw, I'm away from my home comp -- What is our current tax structure?

I'd be in favor of an excessive Lux rate to get a few key cities celebrating/growing. The extra workers bring more production, and when growth slows down, we back off the lux until we hit a point of stability.

Not really sure this is practical in our situation (again, I'm away from the home comp right now): Frinstance, all ships must be homed to separate cities for this to work. Each ship away from home produces 2 red faces, which requires the use of specialists to control.
Don't know if that's doable with our far-flung fleet. It would take some planning...

	08-11-2002 22:55									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

After building Adam's all our city's should get:

1, Market, 50% more money and Lux

2, Courthouse, in rep it reduces corruption by half and when we hit demo it will give us an extra happy citizen.

3, Harbours for coastal city's, using seatiles will give us more trade witch in result keeps our people happy in rep/demo.


Best thing is:

All these improvements are now free from upkeep



Still dont understand this throneroom thing though

	09-11-2002 01:56									#13
	Support Apolyton

on the increase in infrastructure ideas. The more marketplaces the better - why waste potentiall productive workers by turning them into Elvii?

Don't boost luxuries until the markets are there to give the extra increase. Once the cities grew, we'd never be able to lower the luxury rate without severe unhappiness or lots of Elvii.

	09-11-2002 05:17									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Build marketplaces, banks and if you can later on, stock exchanges. I agree with atawa, always build harbours, and make sure you have settlers/engineers roading up the production squares for max trade. I tend to run games with luxuries at 20% once in democracy, or occasionally 30%. With Adam Smith, what's the problem? You don't need the money, you need production, so you need big cities.

I do go for the excessive luxury rate (80%, 90% if I have Adam Smith) for a few turns once I get democracy, then come back down to the 20/30% rate for the remainder of the game. I usually have marketplaces and banks in most cities, and I've never really had a problem with needing help from too many Elvii.

	10-11-2002 03:43									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

How far are we from Democracy?
Let's start building improvements

Starting with Marketplaces and then Libraries.

Once we research Democracy, start a revolution on an
OEDO year, and flip luxuries to 50 percent, Tax to 20-30 percent, and science at 30-20 percent.
This should allow us to go to WLPD quickly, while encouraging large cashflow to build city improvements quickly.

An alternative would be to build the SoL,
Go to Fundamentalism, rake in the tithes with 30 Lux, 70 Tax, and presto:


Free marketplaces and Libraries in every city!
Then when we return to Democracy,

with about 30 Lux, and return to 10 Tax and 60 Science!

	11-11-2002 23:21									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

This turn every city will likely be building a library or marketplace. I am just not sure if that will be sufficient enough to increase happyness. Raising the lux rate is not a good idea becouse we are tryingto get a tech lead, we are not makeing lots of cash but our science rate is

	11-11-2002 23:23									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

By sacrificing a few turns (5 - 10) at high Lux, we get explosive population growth and THAT will send our tech and production rates skyrocketing.

	11-11-2002 23:44									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by atawa Still dont understand this throneroom thing though

In what way? You mean how it works? Or why someone is remarking on us having a poor one?

The feature allows a player to build fancy additions to a throne room (something I enjoyed briefly while I was new to the game. But it has no effect on play, so I turned it off. It sort of like choosing to see a graphical representation of an individual city with the "view city" option.

But if someone is used to using it, and can make some estimation of a civ's happiness with it (entirely possible), ours must look horrible because we haven't been updating it (I didn't, at least). Perhaps the person who brought it up (forget who, sorry) looked at it and thought we had severe happiness problems...

	11-11-2002 23:49									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit By sacrificing a few turns (5 - 10) at high Lux, we get explosive population growth and THAT will send our tech and production rates skyrocketing.

You mean "after we become a democracy", right? In Republic, WLTCD just gets us democracy-like *production*, I think. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it isn't population increase.

	11-11-2002 23:59									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by cavebear You mean "after we become a democracy", right? In Republic, WLTCD just gets us democracy-like *production*, I think. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it isn't population increase.

Acctually I was under the impression that you did experience population growth But it does not last as it would in demo.

	12-11-2002 00:46									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Zedd Acctually I was under the impression that you did experience population growth But it does not last as it would in demo.

The Manual and the Civilopedia suggest we would not get population growth. On the other hand, they are inaccurate about "continent-only" Wonders, so maybe we do. I do not know for sure. Perhaps someone who does know could answer this?

	12-11-2002 02:10									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

WLTP gives an extra citizen in rep and demo as long as there is a surplus of food.

Only reason we cant do it in rep is becouse of the massive corruption.

	12-11-2002 02:35									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I always wltcd in rep for the massive pop growth and then again when I get demo, size 30 cities have good trade.

	12-11-2002 03:25									#24
	Bad Cavebear! Bad boy! Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by cavebear You mean "after we become a democracy", right? In Republic, WLTCD just gets us democracy-like *production*, I think. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it isn't population increase.

Cavebear --

Sorry, but I've got to send the right back atcha... The Republic celebrates with population growth just like Democracy. I'm at work and can't quote the civilopedia, but fortunately, we have the GL...

quote: From Hawkx9 in the Great Library The Republic should be coming soon, ...so the switch is made. It's nice to have Aqueducts and Harbors up by this time but it isn't really necessary. Now jack the luxuries and max out your cities. (I love watching my pop skyrocket.)

Obviusly, you've never used Republic much. It's a pain (unless you're the AI) but is definitely a key to early growth -- assuming you don't want to spend a fortune on Pyramids or Granaries.

-->> For the record, I do think we'll have a much easier time of managing this if we do it as part of the Demo switch.

This has been a public service announcement by the Science Ministry,
leading New Apolytonia to greater glory through research since 4000 BC.

	13-11-2002 03:46									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Republic has the same properties of WLPD as a Democracy. The problem with Republic is that corruption saps available trade, draining luxuries necessary to sustain WLPD.



I've played too many OCC's where I stay in Republic the whole time! It took me a long time to figure out that I could attain 100 percent science to beat the AI.