08-11-2002 05:48									#1
	Lethal Bombarment Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

many of us play with different rules... so what should be in this one?

each has both land/sea traits:

Catapults
Cannons
Artillery
Hwatcha
Ironclads
Destroyers
Battleships
AGEIS Cruisers
Fighters
Bombers
Jet Fighters
F-16
Stealth Bombers
Stealth Fighters
Cruise Missles

	08-11-2002 05:56									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Both kinds of lethal bombardment: Aircraft, Radar Artillery and cruise missile

All units beyond Cannon with lethal sea bombardment.

	08-11-2002 06:35									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I'd like no mods at all (to avoid opening a Pandora's box), but if we are to play with mods, I'd rather play with Uber's Arnelos' suggestion.

	08-11-2002 06:35									#4
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I think even canon should have lethal sea bombardment (as many a ship in the Age of Fighting Sale was sunk by bombardment from shore fortifications).

As for catapults, I agree that they should NOT have lethal sea bombardment (and that would really be the only restriction).

	08-11-2002 07:22									#5
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I say no mods, as it will IMO confuse people later on.

	08-11-2002 07:32									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Trip Both kinds of lethal bombardment: Aircraft, Radar Artillery and cruise missile All units beyond Cannon with lethal sea bombardment.

I agree with this.

	08-11-2002 08:07									#7
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All of what I mentioned is accurate minus giving Fighters lethal bombardment (was going to correct myself but I had to run).

	08-11-2002 11:10									#8
	Oh YES!!!! Bombs away Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yes Yes Yes

It can be done... One simple, possibly topped threaded, post with the combat mods.... Oh yes...

What are the most things people complain about is combat... we would really up the ante in this regard. It will be F-U-N We all would like to kick some instant "instant butt" than the game allows
We all will know the rules (mods) from day one, before we can even settle.

I have done some balanced mods with destroyers and artillary are only leathal at land or sea respectivly and battelships and cruise missils do both... This might be too complex a mod for our game, but it is an option if it is a question of balance.

We all can adjust, and besides int the end, the AI is just fodder in multiplayer.

[tangent]
Besides, there are several things that I would like to mod for combat.
era HP bonuses (+1HP per era)
Carriers with advanced flight (it pisses me off to have a carrier before a plane)
Crusiers transporting cruise missiles
[/tangent]


We likely should do a poll about mod or no mod or combat only mod. I haven't posted a poll yet, but Ill give it a shot...

Mss

	08-11-2002 23:54									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

The mod combo I sometimes use and find best:

1. All bombardment units (artillery, air units, and naval units) receive lethal land bombardment.

2. Lethal sea bombardment is given only to the following units:

Canons
Artillery
Radar Artillery
Fighters
Bombers
Jet Fighters
F-15s
Stealth Fighters
Stealth Bombers
(note: NO naval units... that would greatly unbalance naval combat, as naval units should have to actually fight one another rather than the first guy safely bombarding the second guy)

3. All air unit bombardment values doubled (I hate the fact that air power is nerfed in Civ3).

- Fighter and Jet Fighter are equivalent of Ironclad (4) rather than Frigate/Catapult (2)
- Bomber and Stealth Bomber are equivalent of Radar Artillery (16) rather than Canon/Battleship (8)
- F-15 and Stealth Fither are equivalent of Canon/Battleship (8) rather than Ironclad (4)

This makes air power (especially with both land and sea lethal bombardment and double bombardment values) actually EFFECTIVE (though still every other bombing run is unsuccessful...). It makes shore bombardment by naval units and bombardment of naval units by land-based artillery both effective w/o messing up naval combat (as naval units must still engage each other directly).

That said, this is attuned to my tastes and not that of others

	09-11-2002 00:59									#10
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Lethal land bombardment isn't really something you want to play with... build 20 catapults and you have 3 free units destroyed. That's a no-no.

Do you really think that a catapult could annihilate a land formation? Or a Fighter? Or a Frigate? Or any ship for that matter.

Once you start talking massive formations of artillery or bombers that fill they sky, then your talking major destruction of entire units.

	09-11-2002 01:19									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Trip,

You still have to agree that AIR POWER has been nerfed in Civ3... a bomber can't even sink an air craft carrier or destroy a single tank!?

	09-11-2002 01:29									#12
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Of course, check out my first post.

In my mod, Fighters are 10/10/2 Bombard Strength 20 Range 7 Lethal sea bombardment. Dive Bombers are 0/3/2 60 bombard strength 6 Range lethal land and sea bombardment. Bombers are made into 'carpet bombers' that are 0/5/2 BStr 40 BRng 11 with neither kind of lethal bombardment.

Then again my mod is as complex as they come and hardly resembles the vanilla game anymore.

	09-11-2002 19:08									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

-Please- let's keep modding to a minimum, for the sake of balance and so not every other guy could stand up and say: "My mod is better, let's add mine to the poll" this only complicates the situation- We only in the middle of planning basics such as map specs and team structures.

As for the modding issue- lethal sea bombardment looks fine to me, but only for Artillery and Radar Artillery, Coastal fort, Cruise missles and Bombers. The other units regarding to RL, don't have the ability to efficiently destroy naval vessels. (canons represent small anti-personal artillery, not heavy cannons that were mounted on ships and in coastal positions).

As for land bombardment, except for the Korean UU, no unit should have lethal bombardment, as it really kills the balance IMO.

	09-11-2002 21:51									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

No mods, please, they will lead to a non-balanced game and add a lot confusing.

	10-11-2002 23:46									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos (as many a ship in the Age of Fighting Sale was sunk by bombardment from shore fortifications).

I've been waiting to correct someone since day one...

Once I saw a Hitler-ok, History Channel (I remember the ARF confusion) show about the Man O War, they said it was virtually impossible to sink a wooden ship (wood floats...I think) so the Man O War would just keep hitting the enemy until they lost their morale and gave up.

PLEASE NO MODS! Like i said on the poll, mods combined with constitutions as complicated as RL constitutions and such will make my low-watt brain burn out...

	11-11-2002 01:11									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Mods are great single player but I am really not that keen on having it here on our PTW games. I don't think that 'game balance' is an issue with mod's, because everyone will have about the same advantage one way or another (unless they are Korean or American or British or etc) just the fact thatEVERYONE has to be informed about it, and EVERYONE has to agree and EVERYONE has to remember that there is a mod in effect in the first place, not just the original game. So my opposition to mod's here is simply why bother with them, too much to worry about.