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Bereta_Eder
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Yet it outlasted the Western Empire by 1000 years and was unique.
Russia is the largest Orthodox nation in the world and did a lot. We invented the brand. But there is no separation on who's done more. Void statement.
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Bereta_Eder
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Wrong assessments.
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Bereta_Eder
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1. 17N had an agenda. They killed imperialists.
2. Orthodoxy flourished in Byzantium. Then it was the time of Russia.
3. Byzantium had all the Balkans and Turkey.
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Bereta_Eder
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Palestinian cause = liberating Palestine.
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Bereta_Eder
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They stopped them and kept 2/3 of the island. Britain was guaranteeing power and did nothing, US helped the Turks.
Pretty good against these odds even more so considering Cyprus is at the other edge of Turkey.
Of course if Greece wasn't ruled by a US backed dictatorship Cyprus would still be all Greek.
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Bereta_Eder
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Turks wanted another state. They never got it. Noone recognized the occupied part as a state and it is filled with Turks (former Cyprus minority and others) living in conditions of extreme poverty.
Greece wants Cyprus as one with Greece.
Cyprus enters the EU in 2004.
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Bereta_Eder
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It does in this circumstance. The occupied part might just not have existed. It is "invisible" in the eyes of the world. (Untill it is re Hellenized through any means. Propably economic).
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Bereta_Eder
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No, we go after planespotters ourselves.
Greece was always there and on prominent level from 5.000 BC onward. Anceint Greece, Hellenistic times, Byzantium, enslaved but richest part of Ottoman Empire, Greece now.
As the saying goes:
Greece never dies.
(now can I play nintendo?)
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Bereta_Eder
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Yeah but Mongols aren't as cute.
Our neighboors are a little bit jealous.
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Ironikinit
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quote:
And who told that they don't gave an anti-dote immediently? As far as I know, doctors signed a special paper- an official promise to don't expose state secret information to anyone. Without proper medicine all of the hostages more probably would be dead now.
A **** about "no info, no antidote, authories sucks" was spreading by people, who more probably never saw wounded hostages. |
Well, if what you say is true, then your government should prove it, because all the news reports I've seen state clearly that the Russian government refused to say what gas was used and that people died because of it. Further, there was footage of victims waiting on buses because there weren't enough ambulances. Basically, you have a choice between your government being too incompetent to foresee what was going to happen or too incompetent to get the true story across. Additionally, when Russian authorities refused to say what gas they used, they created the reasonable suspicion that they did so because the gas was an illegal nerve gas.
Not to mention the reports that a Chechen spy in the Russian government was in contact with the hostage takers the whole time.
As for the charge that Russians sell arms to terrorists, I'm not sure what instance the poster was talking about, but it was reported here that Chechen rebels regularly buy weapons from Russian soldiers. Not that I blame the soldiers. According to the report and other sources, they just as regularly go without pay.
Lastly, I'm waiting on you to thank me for giving an instance of a European country more often invaded than Russia. You did ask for one, then ignored my input. It's a shame to go through life with blinders on.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ironikinit
Well, if what you say is true, then your government should prove it, because all the news reports I've seen state clearly that the Russian government refused to say what gas was used and that people died because of it. |
It only shows how much your western media sucks being totaly biased and totaly anti-Russian. Why should one trust to media which use any words for terrorists, but not in any case call them "terrorists". Show me ONE, SINGLE CNN article where "people" who captured several hundreds of hostages were called "TERRORISTS". I guess you can't show me such article. In every article of your western mass-media I've read, authors call them a "gunmen", a "rebels", etc. I never saw a SINGLE article where they called TERRORISTS. And you are trying to say that your media is unbiased?
If for example I'am consider myself as unbiased and I see big pile of sh*t, I would say that I see SH*T, not "big pile of brown substance" or something of that kind. The same about terrorists, when I see "people" who wearing black masks, holding asssult rifles and threaten to blow-up the theater and kill several hundreds of inocent people, including 6-8 years old children if their demands wouldn't be fullfiled, then I would call those guys TERRORISTS, not "rebels", "gunmen" or something, because difference between 'terrorists' and 'rebels' is the same as between 'sh*t' and "pile of brown substance".
I bet your media never showed interview with doctors who were in theater when operation was just over. A real witnesses who really know how evacuation was going.
I guess your media prefer loud statements and gossips which match "bad Russians sucks" stereotype.
quote:
Further, there was footage of victims waiting on buses because there weren't enough ambulances. |
You saw foto? Great. I was chained to TV all three days and saw everything on-line. Those people didn't waited in buses. They were evacuated in buses to nearest hospitals. Can you imagine about 800 unconeasious (I hate this word and its spelling, I know I typed it wrong. I mean senseless, unable to move) people? Can you imagine 800+ ambulances? Do you have any idea that theater was full of explosives and could blow to the sky every second, because no one could guaranty that ALL bombs were disabled. In such situation first goal is to evacuate all people from dangerous area as soon as posible. It's obvious.
The people who had light intoxication were evacuated on buses. The people who had serious injuries were evacuated on ambulances. It's total bullsh*t that there weren't enough ambulances. I repeat I saw it on-line and saw several EMPTY ambulances and empty buses which leaved the theater's square. It means that there were more then enough ambulances.
quote:
Basically, you have a choice between your government being too incompetent to foresee what was going to happen or too incompetent to get the true story across. |
My government did their best to save hostages and it saved hundreds of them, absolutely majority, more then 85%. Every ex-hostages who survived thanks government for their actions, because they absolutely sure that without storm and without gas which was used all of them would be dead now.
My people do not bash our government, because we understand that they did right thing. We are in sorrow because of killed people, but we consider that TERRORISTS who took them hostages are responsible for their deaths, not our government. Our government had no choice. And we don't care what you think, because you would complain in any case. If Russians did nothing to save hostages and continue to talk with terrorists it would ended as big bloodbath after explosion and you would complain that Russian did nothing to save at least part, at least few hostages.
Now when it successfully ended, SUCCESSFULLY by YOUR WESTERN STANDARDS, by your standards storm consider as successfull if during storm less then 20% of hostages were lost. We lost less then 15% in circamstances which special forces of all countries of the world never saw before. (Could you name me a single exmple when 50 terrorists hold 800+ hostages in building full of explosives?)
And you still complain that it was f*ck-up.
I don't care what you guys think. For me it's more important that hundreds of people were saved.
quote:
Additionally, when Russian authorities refused to say what gas they used, they created the reasonable suspicion that they did so because the gas was an illegal nerve gas. |
The gas was exposed to public on official mission de-brefeing. The case is closed. You think they exposed gas to public, but didn't gave the same info to doctors a day or two before? Where is logic?
quote:
Not to mention the reports that a Chechen spy in the Russian government was in contact with the hostage takers the whole time. |
In government? A spy?
never heard about this. Really funny
quote:
As for the charge that Russians sell arms to terrorists, I'm not sure what instance the poster was talking about, but it was reported here that Chechen rebels regularly buy weapons from Russian soldiers. Not that I blame the soldiers. According to the report and other sources, they just as regularly go without pay. |
Yeah, right, soldiers on battlelfeild. "Ammo, ammo, who wants some ammo, special prices here. Ammo...ammo..who wants some ammo?"
quote:
Lastly, I'm waiting on you to thank me for giving an instance of a European country more often invaded than Russia. You did ask for one, then ignored my input. |
Well, thank you very much, but actually I don't think that Belgium was invaded more often then Russia and saw so much misery as Russia saw. Did they lost millions in combined civil war+intervetion of 14 foreign countries at the same moment, like Russians did almost 100 years ago? Did they lost 27 millions in WW2 and saw SUCH occupation as Russians saw on their lands when half of the country was completely burned. Did they saw 20+ wars per century during medieval/post medieval periods? And finally did they saw 300 years of Mongol occupation? If so, then I'm completely wrong. Please educate me, I'll be very gratefull if you'll prove that I'm wrong.
And don't get me wrong please. I'm not saying that other countries didn't saw wars and misery which wars brings. I'm saying that Russia saw HUGE amount of them. Peacefull periods in our history are really tiny. We always fight with somebody and please remember that I bring this argument only in attempt to explain "we" thing in our mentality.
quote:
It's a shame to go through life with blinders on. |
Yep, put yours off
Last edited by Serb on 15-11-2002 at 15:01
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:23
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Well, at Waco, FBI and ATF agents were wearing black masks, carrying assault rifles, and threatening to assault and burn down a building full of innocent people, including women and children, if their demands weren't met.
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All times are GMT. The time now is 05:23.
Apolyton Time is 00:23. |
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14-11-2002 08:41
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