09-11-2002 01:49									#1
	What should be the first tech we research in the Modern Age? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I nominate Medicine. We'll probably be beaten to the punch with Steam Engine & some scientific civ will probably get Nationalism before we can. Since Medicine is nessarsary for TOE, we get the ablity to techwhore Medicine, and a technology that will be useful soon, and we'll deprive funds to advanced civs that would be selling Steam Engine and Nationalism.

	09-11-2002 01:55									#2
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My top two are Steam and Nationalism, but I agree with the "techwhore" option. One tech that no one has can net us 2-3 other techs in exchange. Medicine would get my vote.

--Togas

	09-11-2002 02:50									#3
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Modern Age??? Isn't that two or three months away?

For the Modern Age, I usally start with Fission so that I can start building the UN so I can start a filibuster (unless the game is already down to me and 1 AI which my last game was and my current game is.)

Next is Computers (SETI & Mech Inf)

Then Ecology for the Mass Transists.

After that it veries.

As for the Industrial age that it right around the corner:

1. Medicine. I think we get beaten out to Steam Power. We will need to large amout of cash though. Tie Medicine and a luxary into the tech deal that gets Steam Power to minimize the GPT payments we have to make.

2. Sanititation. The sooner we can start geting Metropolises the better we will be for both reserach and building.

For the remainder of the Middle Ages.
After aquiring Democracy by any means, Free Artistry.

	09-11-2002 05:53									#4
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For the industrial age, I aslo think medicine is good : nationalism is auto-discovered by scientific Civs, and steam power (while an astounding tech) takes too long to discover.

	09-11-2002 06:09									#5
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Medicine is the choice choice here.

	09-11-2002 06:45									#6
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I normally go for Steam Engine, for the added benifits of Railroads (and knowing where coal is) and then I go for Industrialization for Factories (Sufferage & possible Iron Works). I then go for Medicine and trade for Nationalism. By that time, I have factories built in some of my top cities and can complete the hospitals and Mil units much faster.

With Railroad, I work to get my cities connected together first and then work on getting RR to the rest of the infrastructure. This way, If I need to move Mil Units "FAST", I can. With RR, you have the shield benifit of a GA, without the GA.

E_T

	09-11-2002 07:08									#7
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I agree about Medicine... it's the least popular choice for the AIs, which is precisely what may allow us to get it first and then techwhore it.

	09-11-2002 10:06									#8
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I think we need to wait and see how our research is doing after the GA. Remember, we got beaten to Democracy despite our Golden Age boost; once we're in the Industrial Age, I wouldn't count on being able to research techs in under 20 turns - 30, if we aren't serious about it and don't put much of the slider into it.

	09-11-2002 13:00									#9
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Medicine is the cheapest of the three, and the AIs tend to research it last so we can techwhore it for some money and the rest of the early industrial techs.

	09-11-2002 14:06									#10
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Gee, everyone agreeing...it feels weird...I'm tempted to arge for anything else...just for the sake of the diversity of opinion.

Then again, maybe it is just a good idea.

	09-11-2002 14:57									#11
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Yeah, its probably just a good idea.

	09-11-2002 17:43									#12
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We were probably beaten to Democracy because the AI had a huge headstart, since we weren't investing on research for a long time, and when we started with Democracy- one of those civs was probably few turns into it, So i see no reason for pessimism, despite the fact we were shamefuly beaten to Dem.
I forsee a great period of scientific development coming- hopefully more resources will be turned towards commerce and less towards mlitary.

	10-11-2002 02:25									#13
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I agree we will see a major boost once the FP is completed and we have Libraries & some Universities up and running, and I think we could even become the tech leader if we are willing to invest a large part of the slider in science. I just don't feel confident we'll be at that position right at the start of the Industrial Age.

	10-11-2002 02:35									#14
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I don't think that we'll be the tech leader in the first of the Industrual age without taking Germany down by a notch or two first.

We also have Banks in the works, which will give us Wall Street (may be in Contagion) and we'll need to build up our cash reserve to take full advantage of it. With the Banks, we can also afford to move the slider up (or keep it the same after the GA is finished).

We also still have a large WC force that needs to be upgraded to Cavalry (at 120 Lytons per) and other defencive units that should be upgraded.

E_T

	10-11-2002 02:41									#15
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I like steam engine. RR and coal, which we should have lots of, will offer more in our trades than any one single tech whore with medicin will IMO. We have most of the former jungle, with large areas of mountains and hills. I suspect we will probably get 3 or more coal. Any civ that does not have it will pay dearly to get it, along with RR. Another civ might, just might beet us there, but any research into it will reduce our costs in purchasing it. Also, we need it prior to industrialization, which IMO is probably one of the most important techs in this game. A tech which the AI does NOT take advantage of.

	10-11-2002 03:25									#16
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I agree with GK, I've gotten Industrialization way before the AI ever has and that's while still playing catchup. The advent of Factories way before the AI has allowed me to get ALL of the Industrial Wonders, with no real problems. I was able to techwhore Industrialization, shortly before getting Sufferage, and the same with Sci Method & Electronics, but only when I was assured of a proper lead and that the AI wouldn't be able to switch to the next Wonder.

Normally, around that time, the MPP wars are erupting. These are most likely caused by the AI using an Intelligence Agency and missing the dice roll.

E_T

	11-11-2002 13:15									#17
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Steam engine
then make a beeline for Refining to get a good tradeable tech

	11-11-2002 15:23									#18
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UI usually go for steam, Ind, then Electricity and Medicine, while trding for Nat. I then get Sci Meth, Atomic & Electronic, then trade for Corp, Com & Espianage. By this time I'm even with the AI and just a bit ahead and I'm really starting to make money off of them. I then get Darwins & Hoover tohelp cinch the deal and I then own the AI.

E_T

	11-11-2002 17:53									#19
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Steam Power for rails, then Medicine, on a beeline to SciMeth. As most AIs go for Steam Power when the Industrial Age starts, we can probably sell Medicine at high prices. (It'd be VERY nice for other civs to pay through the nose for our techs, and not vice versa.)

	12-11-2002 01:41									#20
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My usual approach is Steam, Indu, Med, then San. I never bother with Nat, it is always available at the peace table. And if not, who cares. I don't really want to go Commie, and my luck with espionage is so pittiful that I no longer bother. All of this branch are non required for advancement. Why waste so many turns?

Steam starts the RR buildout. RR bonuses make Indu's factories feasible, so that San's hospitals don't take forever. Considering our position, many of our cities cannot utilize hospitals due to jungle, but some can and hopefully more will by that time.

Once this is done, it's cherrypick the wonders.

	12-11-2002 01:49									#21
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I don't care what tech it is, as long as we get parity or better with the other civs in science soon. With the bonuses they have on emperor level, that will be success enough to achieve it and maintain it... and profit from it

	12-11-2002 23:15									#22
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Definately Medicine.

But we really need to enter tje IA right away.

	13-11-2002 00:03									#23
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Athough, if we don't buy ourselves out of the Middle Ages soon, even Medicine will be discovered.

Maybe we should buy Nationalism as soon as possible after entering the Industrail Age.

We would then have two additional techs that the AI is slow to research. (And it would also give us the ability to mobilize the economy if needed.)

	13-11-2002 03:13									#24
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Athough, if we don't buy ourselves out of the Middle Ages soon, even Medicine will be discovered. Maybe we should buy Nationalism as soon as possible after entering the Industrail Age. (And it would also give us the ability to mobilize the economy if needed.)

1.Yes, the best way into the IA is to set the science slider to 0% and buy all the MA techs, then maximize the slider to get Medicine.
2. Not a good idea, our mobilized Cavalry would be fighting mainly Riflemen, but embargoes are effective at slowing down advanced civs, and causing friction between them & others

	13-11-2002 03:19									#25
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quote: Originally posted by realpolitic 1.Yes, the best way into the IA is to set the science slider to 0% and buy all the MA techs, then maximize the slider to get Medicine.

I like this idea and IS my plan if elected FAM under 0% conditions. I have a different plan if 60% if obtained (go see my campaign thread).

quote: 2. Not a good idea, our mobilized Cavalry would be fighting mainly Riflemen, but embargoes are effective at slowing down advanced civs, and causing friction between them & others

As I've stated in the war declaration thread, the SMC will require a sizable artillery corps with plenty of cannon units. Such an artillery corps will need to be augmented by a sizable for of mobile riflemen stacks able to defend the cannon stacks in enemy territory. This might even make up the bulk of our military for such a war, with the cavalry only serving to take down 1-2 enemy cities at at time while they're being bombarded by our cannon stacks.

Wars in the early industrial age are paralizingly slow compared to other periods... let us recall that this is the same time period as the American Civil War and the First World War .... casualties will be high and ground will be gained very slowly... the advantage in wars has gone to the defense...

	13-11-2002 03:34									#26
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Once the AIs have Rifle Men everyhere we'll be in about US Civil War and the German wars of unification.

After we start seeing infentry, then we are in WWI. That would be a great time to simply stop the wars in place.

Any gueses on most likely locations for Rubber? If we can take those areas first, we can prevent having to fight WWI and keep ourselves in the US Civil War / German War of reunification era against them.