09-11-2002 07:07									#1
	Gaming Evolutionary Thread Enter the AD-FREE zone

Just an idea... what if we try to compile evolutionary trees for games... to better show influences, etc... If anyone can provide years, I would appreciate it

RTS

Dune II
|
Command and Conquer
(1994)
|
Warcraft Fantasy RTS
(1994?)
|
Red Alert
(1995)
|
Warcraft II Fantasy RTS
(1996?)

\\\\\\\\ PARALLEL EVOLUTION DEVIANT #1 Historical RTS

|
Age of Empires Historical RTS
(1997)
|
Age of Empires II
(1999?)
|
Empire Earth
(2001)
|
Rise of Nations
(2002?)

\\\\\\ DEVIANT #2 Fantasy/Sci-Fi RTS

Total Annihilation
(1997?)
|
Starcraft
(1997)
|
Warcraft III
(2001)

God-Games

Populous
(1990)
|
Populous II
(1992)
|
Populous 3D
(1999?)
|
The Sims
(1999)
|
Black and White
(1999)
?
Black and White II
(2003?)


TBS

Civ - Reach for the Stars - MoO - Galatic Civ - Colonization (1994) - MoM - Civ 2 (1996)- MoO 2 - SMAC (1997)- Reach for the Stars (new version) - Civ 3 - Galatic Civ (new version)

-
...just for starters

Last edited by DarkCloud on 15-11-2002 at 07:44

	09-11-2002 07:45									#2
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For RTS, you missed Warcraft, Warcraft 2, Warcraft 3, and Starcraft. You also forgot Warlords Battlecry and Warlords Battlecry 2. There is not much historical about Age of Empires.

For God games, you missed Warmonger, all of the SimCity series (they need to be in if you are counting The Sims).


4X Games

Civ - Reach for the Stars - MoO - Galatic Civ - Civ 2 - MoM - Civ 2 - MoO 2 - Reach for the Stars (new version) - Civ 3 - MoM 3 - Galatic Civ (new version)

	09-11-2002 20:37									#3
	Got spare money?

This is a very interesting project but I think it will not be easy at all. Perhaps a treewill be unsufficient for this task, there may be games that have been influenced by more than one games and such.

	09-11-2002 22:41									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

You could add SMAC as a dead end in the 4x games...at least for now
Or maybe as an influence to MOO3.

	09-11-2002 22:43									#5
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Who wants to do one for RPG, a start:

Wasteland -> Fallout -> uhm...that's all i know

	10-11-2002 00:58									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy Who wants to do one for RPG, a start: Wasteland -> Fallout -> uhm...that's all i know

Arena -> Daggerfall -> Morrowind -> Tribunal





Personaly, I gave up on FPS games, their lack of SP replay value is insulting. The last FPS games were AvPGE and Q3. I predict that in a few years, FPS games will go the way of the dodo. Just my prediction.

	10-11-2002 03:41									#7
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quote: There is not much historical about Age of Empires.

It's historical based- it was the first RTS to do anything even near that. And ALL its units are the equivalents of real units of those type.

Frankly, I'm not sure that WArlords was much of a step forward.

I'd like to add Seven Kingdoms, but can't find the correct spot... Same with Shogun:Total War, and Myth: The Fallen Lords as well as Myth 2 and Kohan... but can't figure out where to put them... any ideas?

quote: For God games, you missed Warmonger, all of the SimCity series (they need to be in if you are counting The Sims).

Warmonger?
As for sim City- It's not directly runnign someones lives or an empire- it's more a city thing although I could be swayed.

quote: You could add SMAC as a dead end in the 4x games...at least for now Or maybe as an influence to MOO3.

Well, at least they contribuited semi-3d terrain

List updated!

	10-11-2002 04:23									#8
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Seven Kingdoms should definitely be in front RoN, when i heard about RoN, SK was the first thing that came to mind.

	10-11-2002 08:35									#9
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Warlords Battlecry is the first RTS game with a hero.

Seven Kingdoms is somewhere after AoE or AoE 2, and there's also Seven Kingdoms 2. Don't forget Dungeon Keepers in the RTS tree.

Shogun Total War seems to be a TBS, or wanted to be classified as such.

Also the "software toys" series:

SimCity - SimEarth - SimLife - SimAnt - SimCity 2000 - SimCity 3000 - The Sims - SimGolf

I am sure I miss a whole bunch in there somewhere.

	12-11-2002 20:27									#10
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I'd be intersted to know what peple think followed Elite as I would like to give a space combat/trading game another go

	12-11-2002 21:21									#11
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Elite -> X - Beyond the frontier -> X2 (not out yet)

There are also online space combat/trade games, one of them is Eve (beta phase - www.eve-online.com)

	12-11-2002 23:19									#12
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Warmonger?

A fantastic game, although I'll admit I remember almost nothing about it since I last played it 10 or so years ago. I DO remember that I had a total blast playing it, though.

A quick google search turned up nothing apart from this page that says the site has no cheats for it (http://www.cheatcave.com/cheats.php...d=3&gameid=7002).

	13-11-2002 07:47									#13
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Sorry, brain-farted. It should be Powermonger, a game that appeared after Populus but before Populus 2, also by the same crowd.

	13-11-2002 08:28									#14
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger I'd be intersted to know what peple think followed Elite as I would like to give a space combat/trading game another go

I can think of a game that was probably before Elite....

It was called Sundog and it may of had a sequel, but I can't remember.

Sundog came out in the mid 80's for the Apple IIc.

ACK!

	13-11-2002 08:36									#15
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Would Powermonger be a lot like Ultimate Domain?

-
...
And one could argue that the old text based games came before Sundog

Adventure Games: Noninteractive (IE excludes Kings/Space Quest)
Zork I
Zork II
Zork III
Zork IV
Zork V
Zork VI
Return to Zork
Myst
Zork: Grand Inquisitor
Riven
The Longest Journey
Myst III
Syberia

	13-11-2002 08:54									#16
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Would Powermonger be a lot like Ultimate Domain? - ... And one could argue that the old text based games came before Sundog

True, except they aren't space combat/trade games.

ACK!

	13-11-2002 18:16									#17
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Are we trying to list games which were notable milestones? A lot of these seem to be just lists of sequels that added little or nothing to the genres.

PC Gamer did a history of gaming chart about a year ago that did a good job of really pinpointing groundbreaking games. Unfortunately I didn't bother to keep it and it was much more than just linear progression chains so tricky to describe even if I still had it.

	13-11-2002 19:22									#18
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the most important for me is wolf3d->doom->doom2->quake1->quake2->quake3 of course that's just id games but they basically are the deathmatch fps market

	13-11-2002 19:45									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Personaly, I gave up on FPS games, their lack of SP replay value is insulting. The last FPS games were AvPGE and Q3. I predict that in a few years, FPS games will go the way of the dodo. Just my prediction.

you'll be wrong with that prediction. anyhow, fps games have been pretty weak lately. most single player fps rely on pre-scripted events so you can only need to play them once to get the full experience. the problem isn't that this is bad but that the only real improvement in today's fps games are graphics(more or less), and not gameplay(which is why your dodo prediction seems on the mark). the only thing really keeping fps games a float is the fact that they are so well suited and built for multiplayer. if civ had the same ease of use, modability, and playability as quake 3 people would play it for years to come.

i was going to write a lot more but i wouldn't want to get too far off topic like last time.

	14-11-2002 01:37									#20
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Starcraft->Homeworld->Armada2->O.R.B.

	14-11-2002 02:29									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

you should be more specific about dune being the first RTS - Dune was an adventure game. Dune 2 was the first main-stream RTS game. i say main-stream because there is proven accounts of true RTS games that came out before Dune 2, however it was Dune 2 that really began the RTS genre by making it popular.

	14-11-2002 05:09									#22
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Extinct game categories:

Side-scrolling beat-em-ups.
Isometric platformers.
Side-scrolling RPGs.

Soon to be extinct:

Turn-based strategy games.

	14-11-2002 12:52									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Soon to be extinct: Turn-based strategy games.

I don't know. There's still a big following for them, and as long as high quality TBS titles exist, the community will continue to exist.

Same was being said of adventure games years ago, but they are still around.

	14-11-2002 14:31									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Extinct game categories: Side-scrolling beat-em-ups.

Anyone remember Renegade?

	14-11-2002 17:54									#25
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I just saw a TV ad for the new Contra game. It looks good, and looks to be another step in the evolution of side scrollers (which still do exist).

	14-11-2002 18:17									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Anun Ik Oba I don't know. There's still a big following for them, and as long as high quality TBS titles exist, the community will continue to exist. Same was being said of adventure games years ago, but they are still around.

I think its the other way around. As soon as a developer muses about turning a sequel into a real time game because they think it will be cooler that way, their fans scream at them to get their grubby mitts off. Some styles of game simply work better as turn based where you get ample planning opportunity without having to slap the pause button like a demented monkey.

	14-11-2002 22:33									#27
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Would Powermonger be a lot like Ultimate Domain?

Not sure what Ultimate Domain looks like, but it sort of looks like Populus minus the gods.

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Adventure Games: Noninteractive (IE excludes Kings/Space Quest) Zork I Zork II Zork III Zork IV Zork V Zork VI Return to Zork Myst Zork: Grand Inquisitor Riven The Longest Journey Myst III Syberia

Ah, this was a biggie. The first one was Adventure, followed by Zork: the Great Undergound Empire (this was later divided into Zork I and Zork II when it was ported over to microcomputers. Then there's a whole bunch of stuff written by Scott Adams (no relation to Dilbert's author as far as I can determine) such as Adventureland and Pirate Adventure. After a while Infocom came into play, who brought us some of the best text-based adventures ever produced. Other than the early Zork games, other ones include:

Wishbringer
The Spellbreaker trilogy. I think the other two are Enchanter and Sorcerer, but don't quote me on that.
Starcross
Deadline (there's another detective one like it)
Planetfall
Leather Goddess of Phobos

Don't forget the Lucasfilm ones such as Sam and Max, several Monkey Island games, and some others. Ask Snapcase, he's an expert on them.

	15-11-2002 02:36									#28
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WarCraft II - Total Annihilation - Warlords Battlecry - Warlords Battlecry II

Wolf3D - Doom - Duke3D - Jedi Knight - Serious Sam

	15-11-2002 07:46									#29
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Okay, I've fixed the Dune problem- thanks=- I never knew that Dune 2 was the RTS!

-
Ultimate Domain- you rule a city- 6x6 squares and build until you can send out settlers to found another city 6x6... It doesn't have the god qualities- but it has the city-manager/populous qualities... Actually, the more I think about it- it's more like Sim City than Populous.


-

quote: Deadline (there's another detective one like it)

...And it's descendants-
The Dagger of Amon Ra
Phantom of the Opera
Gabriel Knight
Gabriel Knight II
Gabriel Knight III

and the spinnoffs
Phantsmagoria
Shivers
Phantsmagoria II (althought PII is really more of a regression than a progression )