09-11-2002 23:43									#1
	A Spanish Inquisition Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'm making my way into my first game as the Spanish, and stopping now to file an early report gathering a few strategic first impressions.

I've been looking forward to playing the Spaniards because the combination of commercial and religious seemed very potent for empire building. As various shoguns and pharoahs and so on have already discovered, switching governments on the fly, along with rapid cathedral construction ,certainly accelerates conquest. Then, once you have new conquests in hand, being commercial makes a relatively broad range of territory productive.

Plus, the conquistador sounded like a fun unit to run.

So far my game is competitive. I'm definitely finding, however, that several pre-PTW habits definitely need tweaking.

With cultural linkage on, you will start near the European civs, of course: French, Germans, English, Russians and/or Celts. The [AI-run] French, of course, are very agreeable neighbors -- either as preferred trading partners or as oscillation victims. The [AI-run] Germans can be unruly, but easy enough to contain because they're fairly predictable. (Don't look weak -- make your neighbor look weak; whichever looks more vulnerable is definitely going to get a visit from Bismark.) The [AI-run] Russians are containable, so long as they can be pruned before military tradition/cossaks.

The [AI-run] Celts are harder to read. In my game I managed to bottle them up above a chokepoint. They did have iron, and soon enough I saw Gallic Swordsmen pacing around near my borders. But they never came down out of the hills to take me on -- and they appeared to coexist fairly peacefully with the Russians to their east.

Things proceeded more or less as they usually do for me through the early middle ages. I took a piece out of civs to my immediate north and then south, then settled in to build. Set up a twin-radius (FP/Palace) infrastructure, set my cities to work erecting improvements, now in republic, of course.
I happened to have woeful luck with leaders, though. And the PTW-scrambled AI tech/wonder priorities messed up several wonder pre-build manuevers. So I'm playing without several of the wonders to which I have grown accustomed. (I particularly miss Sistine's. )

I stayed optimistic, though, looking forward to unleashing conquistadors and triggering a golden age right in the medieval wonders sweet spot.

But b the time I reached navigation, it was late in the middle ages. The next time I try Isabelle, I will beeline for navigation. Otherwise, the Spanish UU comes later than I realized it would. By the time my conquistadors were riding north to mass with an attack force on the Russian border, most of the AIs had metallurgy. Which means, in my case, my conquistadors may well be going up against cavalry.

This UU seems somewhat underpowered, given where it comes in the game. What we have here might be comparable to something like the Egyptian war chariot or the muskateer -- in other words, a GA trigger that is otherwise not particularly effective militarily speaking. A good pillaging unit, perfect for breaking through mountainous terrain. But nothing that will turn the tide of a major war. Too expensive to pile up en masse and unleash like a horde of jaguar warriors.

On the other hand, the animation is cool. It jangles as it travels. And I love the dogs.

	09-11-2002 23:52									#2
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Egyptian war chariot rocks
It's so cheap and you can produce so many, that you can even kill the Greeks without many losses thanks to the retreating.
Their only problem is, you're gonna have a depotic GA, but sometimes it's worth that.

	13-11-2002 06:25									#3
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I think that the middle period UU's are intentionally weaker. I love playing the French. Commercial for the big empire thing and industrious for the fast road building and making captured workers effective. The musketeer for the gunpowder GA right around the time that the GL fizzles. Helps your beeline to miltrad. Now I just hope my soon to be PBEM opponents didn't read this!

	14-11-2002 03:22									#4
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Yes, I'd recommend Beeline to Navigation as Spain to maximize the period in which your UU is suitable for more than pillaging resources & luxaries during a war.

For Russia & Ottman I recommend Beelining to Mobile Warfare to maximize the period in which their UU is effective before balance between offense & defense swings too much to the defense for wars.

The general principle in Civ III and PTW is always beeline for your UU unless you are playing a civ that starts with the techs needed to build them.

	14-11-2002 03:57									#5
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I haven't played as Spain yet, but my gut tells me that the Conquistador may be more useful against humans than against the AI. At 70 shields a pop (IIRC) they cost as much as knights and almost twice as much as longbowmen or medieval infantry, but pack less offensive power. I would think the only reason to build them would be as (1) a GA trigger (like keeping an Egyptian war chariot around into the middle ages just for GA timing), or (2) using their 6-tile movement to attack cities or pillage tiles "well behind the lines." Since the AI stacks defenders in all its cities, but humans may leave interior cities relatively defenseless, the Conquistador might (I stress might) have some use as a surprise attack unit when used en masse against interior cities of a human opponent.

Catt

	14-11-2002 23:48									#6
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Spain is near the top of my list of favorite civ neighbors and near the bottom of the list of civs I want to draw in an all-random game. Catt's being kind. The UU's pathetic. A human opponent should know that interior cities need to be defended against Spain and the hitting power of the UU is so weak that it will bounce off even a half-hearted defensive effort, IMO.

	15-11-2002 03:26									#7
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Yes, I'd recommend Beeline to Navigation as Spain to maximize the period in which your UU is suitable for more than pillaging resources & luxaries during a war.

So, starting with this strategic imperative and planning for a beeline to Nav, what are the implications?
The new path through the tech tree takes some getting used to (at least for me). Theology is an easy choice -- I'm always making a major bid for Sistine, no matter what else is going on. From there you pass through Education to Astro to Nav. And meanwhile put Chivalry, Banking, and Feudalism/Invention/Guns... on hold (or else rely on other civs). In other words, you are courting a certain level of military vulnerability in order to acheive a medieval golden age.
On the other hand, you are putting yourself in a prime position to secure Copernicus and open early overseas trading routes.
The major switch for me is waiting on banking -- since the Trading Company is one of those wonders I really try to get. I think what I'd do here would be to trade Nav quickly, to get banking if possible, then make up ground in other areas. Assuming you can get to Nav early, it should command a nice price (becuase of Magellan's, which I don't care much about the AI does). In other words, this has to be an all out race. No looking to either side. Try to get feudalism along the way for basic defensive purposes, but otherwise play carefully, paying bribes if you have to, meanwhile setting everything up for the arrival of conquistadors. At which point, it's time military upgrades (assuming you've been able to peddle your techs) and war.

The only problem here is that you are racing the AI civs down paths many of them take too. The Spanish are a risky play.

	15-11-2002 14:16									#8
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I agree that 70 shields is just TOO darn expensive for a unit with 3/2/2 even if it DOES treat all terrain as roads. In my game I cut the Conquistadores' cost to 50 shields, and that seems to work better.

	15-11-2002 16:34									#9
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When you compare the conquistador with cavalry (another late middle-age unit), it's obvious how useless the UU is.

	15-11-2002 16:49									#10
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But the point is that you should not comapre it to Kinights, since you ca get in much earlier (if you try hard).

And it's not supposed to be used as offensive unit.
It's supposed to be used with Guerrila tactics (pillgae, sabotage and killing wounded cavalry).

	16-11-2002 02:51									#11
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Speaking of Spanish Inquisitions, riddle me this, Apolytonianites:

Is there any way for the Spaniards to acquire scouts? Large quantities preferable.

Think about it.

	20-11-2002 22:33									#12
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Nakar: You mean, to upgrade to explorers (or in this case, Conquistadors)? I don't see how, short of modding, since the Spanish are not expansionist.

	21-11-2002 15:06									#13
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Spanish Inquisition?

I didn't expect that...

	21-11-2002 21:35									#14
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quote: Originally posted by TacticalGrace Spanish Inquisition? I didn't expect that...

NO ONE EXPECTS-oh, bugger. It took 12 posts for that to come up?! Sheesh....