10-11-2002 23:38									#1
	still dont get coastal fortress Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

ok i got a swarm of ironclads that are blockading and bombarding a port city of mine. i rush a coastal fortress but it doesnt seem to shoot at them even when they are all over my coast. how do u make this thing work? i still havent seen it fire at ships yet! and what makes it even more annoying is coastal fortress seems to be one of the first improvement destroyed upon bombardment...why cant they just destroy a granary or something....

	11-11-2002 01:18									#2
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Ship have to traverse two squares in the radius of the fortress to activate the defense. The AI is aware of this and tends to either avoid those cities or not trip the firing. IOW I do not build them. I use art/bomber and ships to do the job. Bombarment will at least drive them off.

	11-11-2002 02:34									#3
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well those ironclads were in coast the tile right next to my city. they cant get any closer.

	11-11-2002 06:38									#4
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It does not matter how close thy get, did they cross through two tiles to get there? If they can avoide cross two tiles they will not be fired upon. IOW if they are outside of your city radius move inside next to you and only use one tile of the harbor area they will not be fired on. The AI will avoid the trigger. Just like you would, if you could.

	11-11-2002 06:43									#5
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Which is why people don't build them. They're essentially useless.

	11-11-2002 06:51									#6
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So true.

	11-11-2002 16:11									#7
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It seems that people are a bit mistaken about the functioning of Costal Fortresses. The real benefit from the Fortresses is from their defensive bonus against attack/bombardment by enemy ships, and NOT from any supposed "active defense". The bombardment of enemy ships in the radius of a Coastal Fortress works EXACTLY the same way as the one-shot bombardment that the Zone of Control of a land Fortress or a land unit provides, but with a Bombard attack value of eight.

	11-11-2002 16:30									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Ijuin It seems that people are a bit mistaken about the functioning of Costal Fortresses. The real benefit from the Fortresses is from their defensive bonus against attack/bombardment by enemy ships, and NOT from any supposed "active defense". The bombardment of enemy ships in the radius of a Coastal Fortress works EXACTLY the same way as the one-shot bombardment that the Zone of Control of a land Fortress or a land unit provides, but with a Bombard attack value of eight.

They are still useless, as they AI will continue to bombard until it has destroyed what it wanted to destroy, unless you hurt them in some way, by your ships, artillery or bombers.

	11-11-2002 17:57									#9
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much better off building artillery. If you have a rail network then having just 10 artillery is hugely effective. If used in conjuction with a few ships you can really cripple the enemy navy by sinking some ships and hopefully taking a few invasion troops with it.

With the advent of flight it gets even better for the defender. If you have lethal air bombardment against naval units things are even more interesting.

	11-11-2002 19:05									#10
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You can mod the fortresses. Make them create 1 culture/turn, and add 1 gold upkeep. It comes closer to realism. Old coastal fortresses are currently regarded as 'landmarks' or such.

Then you have some use for them...

	12-11-2002 01:51									#11
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coastal fortresses also help against marine invasions i think. But then again, what kind of brainless monkey attacks a town with coastal fortrees, city walls, hill and mech inf with a marine?

	12-11-2002 02:58									#12
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...or even several marines?

I rarely use marines, and if so only to capture tiny island cities with a luxury or something of the sort. They are just target practice for MI.

	12-11-2002 18:52									#13
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I found that marines can be quite useful especially if my navy and aviation brought the city defenders to just a few hp each and the city population to less than 6. In this case marines can be effective even against mech infs. I usually use marine assaults to open a 'second front' against my enemy - I capture a city with marines and then unload MA and MI from transports into the city and then launch a new attack with this force.

	12-11-2002 21:04									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Which is how they're meant to be used... they're purely specialist units meant for use in conjunction with bombardment against coastal targets. I very rarely use them.

	12-11-2002 22:20									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

yes, I agree with DrFell. However, all the effort in building a navy (which is fun but not really practical)and a bomberforce (which takes ages to bomb with) can be put into makeing extra armour and mech inf and you just dump it a square away and drive into the city.

In short, there's nothing the "force" you to use marines (or paratroopers) which you can't fix with brute force. That I find a shame.

	13-11-2002 12:29									#16
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Cannot coastal fortresses have longer range?

About the artillery, I read somewhere that if artillery resides in square bombarded by naval unit, it has a chance to return fire...?

	13-11-2002 19:14									#17
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I dont know how many of you have seen or read Guns of Navarone, but in it, the coastal fortress installed with 2 artillery guns knocked out any ally ship and had great range. i wish the coastal fortress was more like an artillery in civ3 where u can actually bombard with it. maybe coastal fortress should give us an option of placing an artillery unit inside it and let us bombard ships passing near it. like giving coastal fortress Load option and placing artillery inside it that we actually have to produce. doing this SHOULD actually give artillery lethal SEA bombardment and the only way to actually destroy ships with land artillery!

	13-11-2002 19:45									#18
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In the Apolyton University mod the Coastal Fortress is required to upgrade naval units (instead of harbours), thus making it useful. IMO, the drawback is that it comes a little too late in the tech tree, after you want to start upgrades.

	14-11-2002 00:19									#19
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Yes those were naval guns. I think 10".

	14-11-2002 01:30									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Slax IMO, the drawback is that it comes a little too late in the tech tree, after you want to start upgrades.

You are also forced to take the lower (Wonder-poor) technology path if you want to launch invasions without having to build your caravel navy from scratch.

BTW, this change is no longer part of the AU Mod as of version 1.05.