11-11-2002 06:39									#1
	Tied Poll: Map Specs. What now Got spare money?

Official Poll: Map Specs:
http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...&threadid=66457

I suggest we discuss it this time, before we poll.

	11-11-2002 06:46									#3
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I agree with Random land mass and water coverage.

I disagree with random climate, temperature and age. Here's why...

Starting in tundra would be nearly the end of the game for that unlucky civ. You just can't do anything with it for far too long. Desert would be bad enough, but at least with desert there is a good chance of rivers and flood plains.

The solution to this? Warm temperature. The caps are minimised or eliminated altogether. With warm you would use Normal climate and 4 billion (defaults). If you chose wet you will have no tundra and no desert (likely). That means 0 oil in some games. Oops.

So I say Random land mass and water, choose Normal climate and 4 billion years. Choose Warm temperature.

Wouldn't it be just great to pick all random and have archi, arid, cool, 3 billion? NOT!

What do you think?

	11-11-2002 06:48									#4
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But that would be picking. If you remember, neither random nor picking won.

This thread is about what to do about THAT issue, not to press your map agenda. Doing so would be throwing out the results of the poll.

	11-11-2002 06:53									#5
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What result? It was tied. It must be redone, no?

And yes, a discussion is for pressing your views and discussing them with others along with theirs. I think that's how it works.

	11-11-2002 06:57									#6
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I'm all for you notyoueither is saying.
The reason I voted no random in the first place is because there wasn't a compromise built into the poll.

I hate the idea of random climate because it maximizes the chances of a bad start location (which might not prove insurmountable in a SP game but probably will in MP). I also never play anything but worlds of 4 billion years because, again, I didn't buy the game to battle the elements (play the elements ), but I really wouldn't mind a random layout for the landmasses.

	11-11-2002 07:02									#7
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Random landmass is a given.

	11-11-2002 07:06									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Random landmass is a given.

alright...

	11-11-2002 07:08									#9
	Got spare money?

But I agree with that also. I'm a vehement supporter of random landmass, you must understand.

	11-11-2002 07:24									#10
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I understand that, but some others may not be.

I can live with it.

	11-11-2002 08:09									#11
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I say we repoll !
OR we make a group poll on every precise issue like :

"What should our climate be ?"
Group A : cold
Group A : normal
Group A : warm
Group B : random

It might end up in a full randomization, but at least it would get things done. (Sad turn of events, since I'm a partisan of fixed settings )

	11-11-2002 08:21									#12
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Unless anyone has objections, I'll start a poll with it based upon each individual issue, where people will be allowed to vote random as well.

	11-11-2002 08:30									#13
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Can't be too cold, but I'd not be happy with too warm a climate, either. Jungles are pretty miserable.

	11-11-2002 08:41									#14
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Jungles, desert, and rivers are a function of Dry/Normal/Wet.

Temperature controls Tundra/Grass/Plains.

/Edit. Doing some additional checking.

The ratios of Grass and Plains seem to bounce around with both Climate and Temperature.

Jungles and Desert are most effected by Climate.

Tundra is most effected by Temperature.

I have not looked for effects on forest.

Last edited by notyoueither on 11-11-2002 at 09:01

	11-11-2002 09:53									#15
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NYE,

Wet DOES NOT MEAN that there is less oil. The total number of oil resources (or any resource) is set by the number of players, not the number of available tiles. Then the oil is distributed to available tiles.

Yes, this CAN mean that almost all of the world's oil supply is hoarded into a few tiles of desert in one location and a few tiles of tundra in another (I've seen this happen).

I say we go WET regardless.

	11-11-2002 10:07									#16
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There have been reports of 'No Oil' games when using Wet and Warm. Luck of the draw. It can happen with that combination.

What happens is that there are so few tundra/desert tiles that none gets placed at the beginning. Since none are there to disappear, then none appear. Or something like that. However, it does happen.

	11-11-2002 10:08									#17
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Wet also encourages the proliferation of jungle.

Who here wants their team to start where Apolytonia started in the C3DG?

	11-11-2002 10:44									#19
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I agree with Spiffor

	11-11-2002 16:33									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You 2 are being sarcastic, or you are insane.

I'll put my money on sarcastic.

	11-11-2002 17:00									#21
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You 2 are being sarcastic, or you are insane. I'll put my money on sarcastic.

Wet. Its the only way to encourage rivers. Other than splitting nye's head open and creating a river of blood that is...........

What? I don't have anything to worry about. He's already put me on "his list". The most he can do is bump me to the top, and that would require him renaming his team.

	11-11-2002 17:01									#22
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I'm beginning to prefer normal climate 4 billion yrs. True it means their will be some tundra/jungle but it lessens the possibility of someone starting near a lot of either one. It also reduces the risk of complete lack of resources.

	11-11-2002 17:14									#23
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb What? I don't have anything to worry about. He's already put me on "his list". The most he can do is bump me to the top, and that would require him renaming his team.

	11-11-2002 17:26									#24
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Wet. Its the only way to encourage rivers. Other than splitting nye's head open and creating a river of blood that is........... What? I don't have anything to worry about. He's already put me on "his list". The most he can do is bump me to the top, and that would require him renaming his team.

You are going out of your way, aintchya buddy?

Pleased to oblige.

When do you want to meet for the duel?

	11-11-2002 17:42									#25
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Although I like the idea of a random map, I’d like to avoid extreme cases for this game. A cold, arid, min water archipelago where you start on a frozen island wouldn’t be all that fun in MP. Yes in SP it’s a “good challenge”, and I enjoy it, but I’d like an MP game to be as easily matched as possible. Let’s not romanticize the “random map”, it may add flare to SP, but it could just add frustration to MP. We’re going to spend A LOT of time on this game let’s try to make it as even as possible.

At least that’s my 2 cents.

	11-11-2002 17:44									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Randolph Although I like the idea of a random map, I’d like to avoid extreme cases for this game. A cold, arid, min water archipelago where you start on a frozen island wouldn’t be all that fun in MP. Yes in SP it’s a “good challenge”, and I enjoy it, but I’d like an MP game to be as easily matched as possible. Let’s not romanticize the “random map”, it may add flare to SP, but it could just add frustration to MP. We’re going to spend A LOT of time on this game let’s try to make it as even as possible. At least that’s my 2 cents.

Couldn't have said it any better

	11-11-2002 17:46									#27
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You are going out of your way, aintchya buddy? Pleased to oblige. When do you want to meet for the duel?

Oooohhhh, a duel!

	11-11-2002 21:48									#28
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Voting on individual issues is a good idea. I have also posted another Idea in the failed poll. Vote based on teams. We have 5 teams and we would get a definative answer.

	11-11-2002 22:18									#29
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Okay, this thread is descending into anarchy, I'm going to set up the new poll. NYE, go get your argument ready.