11-11-2002 09:46									#1
	Imperial Dip 50: Winter 1873 Adjustments Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sorry for delay in getting these up.

Will be away next weekend (leaving fairly early on friday) homefully getting myself a job for after I graduate this spring, so if at all possible try to get orders in on thursday night but if not I'll adjudicate next Sunday.

austria:
disband f ber

china:
Build fleet HK

csa:
Build F San Francisco
Build F Richmond
Build (waived)
F Bismark Sea retreats to Luzon

mexico
Build F FLK
Build F SCT
Build F OLI

turkey
build F Aden
build F Bag

Last edited by Bosh on 11-11-2002 at 10:25

	11-11-2002 09:47									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

my e-mail server is acting strangely (recieves mail fine, doesn't like sending it) so will a player please send an e-mail to all players to the effect that these results are up?

	11-11-2002 09:48									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

where are my builds?

	12-11-2002 10:32									#4
	Got spare money?

Winter 1874 map:


http://www.geocities.com/ruffhaus8/IMPERIAL/W1874.gif


Please check for accuracy

	12-11-2002 19:45									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Ruff,
How can you fleet retreat to Luzon, if I was displaced from Luzon then I my unit was attacked and no one can retreat there, correct or no?

Also, how can I get my Polish flag by my name, I feel left out.

	12-11-2002 22:03									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Defiant, must I teach you everything about naval warfare? I warned you about taking me on at sea early on in this game. Didn't I tell you who would win?

Follow me now:

My F Luzon dislodged and sank your junker in Luzon Strait, leaving the territory of Luzon open. You weren't not displaced from the island territory (Luzon), nor could you retreat there because the successful attack came from Luzon (island). And that is why I can retreat there, because there is no conflict in Luzon the island territory, since the battle was fought and won at sea in the Luzon Strait. Clever planning on the part of the Confederate Admiralty wouldn't you say?

F Hong Kong, eh? Aren't the seas littered with enough of that cheap Chinese tin yet?

	12-11-2002 22:12									#7
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Defiant Also, how can I get my Polish flag by my name, I feel left out.

This is almost too funny!

	19-11-2002 17:44									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Since my questions over the unfair rules discrepancies in this game remain ignored, I am following through on my promise to quit. I have handed in orders for this turn so as not to slow the game down too much, but after that, I'm gone.

I'm sorry it's come to this, but I refuse to play against the GM as well as all the other players. I could handle CDed units supporting each other, but not the GM deciding their moves when he has my orders at his side. That's just unfair frankly. And since my repeated calls for some clarification of the rules have been completely ignored by the GM, I feel I have no other choice.

Good luck to the remaining players - my money is on a solo for the GM!

	20-11-2002 09:11									#9
	Support Apolyton

In response to the E-mail you sent regardling Austrian policy change, Boshko, I'll post the same message I sent to you.

"That's complete bullshit Boshko, and you know it"

	20-11-2002 09:12									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

You didn't have 'offensive' orders submitted for Austria when CSA was gaining ground, when they could have easily made a few gains, so why would you have someone submit them for Austria now just because I've attacked? Completely unfair

I'm sick of rules being thrown together mid-way through the game in the spirit of 'fairness'.

	20-11-2002 17:24									#11
	Tired of ads?

Well, while I agree with Orange_1 and orange on my disdain for the chosen method of dealing with the Austrian (and previously the Dutch) units, I would like to point out that I said so earlier, and neither of you weighed in until it affected you directly. I'm not tabling this as an indictment, because I think it was a situation of simply not caring enough. However, now that it has come home to roost in your neighborhood, you are seeing what I've been saying all along. orange, I think you are also seeing what my complaints on the CGN Imperial game are based on. And we *are* heading down this road there. But you will not call for reforms there before we encounter it.

The Austrian units have been moving (offensively, but not effectively) against the CSA for at least 2-3 turns since HDS left the game. I was quite suprised myself. Additionally the recent Austrian disband (F Berlin) chosen by the GM was very favorable to England/Turkey in spite of the fact that it was contrary to the rules for civil disorder disband. No complaint from either of you here, nor was there when the Dutch were disbanding by SnowFire's system.

My point is that I'm in agreement with you on these issues, but you guys never back me when I raise the points in the first place. And the larger issue is that if a GM intends to so drastically alter the rules of the game then he should seriously consider composing a formal edition of house rules so that the players can be aware of these situations in advance.

Last edited by RUFFHAUS 8 on 20-11-2002 at 17:31

	20-11-2002 17:39									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Ruff - in all honesty I haven't had time to notice his moves. If you had complained, I'd have backed you up. However, this is not "all units support" or even the "all units support" and cut support when beneficial...this is calling for offensive moves to be made by the nation just because I have opened up another front. THAT I feel is completely unfair. I don't think this is going on in CGN Imperial at all...though once again...I DO understnad your complaints in that game as well (and have said so many times)

	20-11-2002 21:32									#13
	Put an end to popups!

Ruff, I agree that I didn't notice when it was happening to you and Mexico, but I don't remember you complaining either. That aside, I'm not suggesting Britain is getting shafted more than the CSA, in this sense, the rule changes are fair because we are all getting shafted!! All I'm saying is that it's u8nfair whoever it's happening to, I only noticed it when it happened to me because nobody that I can remember had brought it up before. To be perfectly honest, the disband in Berlin went right over my head because I had already made my decision to quit and was no longer paying much attention to the moves. I have handed in moves for this turn as a courtesy to those still playing so as not to hold up the game.

I apologise for not noticing earlier when it was happening to others, but that doesn't make it any less wrong in my eyes. In fact, it makes it worse because everyone is getting screwed over here. This isn't just me throwing the dummy out the pram because I'm getting beat - I think everyone here knows I'll happily play games to the end and have played and offered to play mercy positions in a number of games to help GMs out - it's because of the principles. Despite complaining about this on several occassions and asking for a clarification from Boshko of what exactly the rules are, he has completely ignored me. I refuse to play in a game when the rules are apparently made up as they go along and when asked to clarify them, nobody can do so.

I sympathise with your position too Ruff, you've clearly been screwed here too, but if I were you, I would have left the game at that point.

	30-11-2002 03:35									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

I guess this game, much like this club has died?