07-12-2002 05:39									#91
	Increase Your PM Length

I don't think making special forces a unique unit is inaccurate. More and more these days the US is concentrating highly trained special forces units to do most of its combat dirty work.

Nick727, your post does not compute. If musketmen are poor at offense, why did they replace swords and bows? Stranger still, why is the archer a strictly offensive unit with the worst possible defense rating while musketmen are defensive and they both use ranged missle weapons? Besides you went from saying that musketmen should not have increased attack value to saying that they could not effectively DEFEND against a charge by knights.

Personally, I think the combat ratings, costs and upgrade paths in vanilla Civ3 are half baked to put it nicely. Thank god for the editor to bring some sanity to the game. I have completely made over most unit abilities. Too bad I have done so much of this that I haven't had time to actually play.

I agree about the partisans in Civ2. They were an annoyance at best and there was a trick to utterly avoid them. All you had to do was fill up the city radius with your units and there would be no partisans when you took a city.

	07-12-2002 22:07									#92
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Muskets never did replace swords. Swords where useful up until the rifle came aboutand even then some still carried them. When the Spanish 1st came to America they had Muskets compareable to those that I think the makers of Civ3 put into there game for the musketman unit. Offensively I can assure you they wouldnt be able to use them very effectivly unless they also had swords. Everyone of these men along with his musket had sword or was supposed to have.These men also had armor which protected them from many of the weapons that native tribes would use. In Civ3 there is a big problem with units n combat. The reason being every unit fights alone unless of corse you have been blessed with a leader n a army n even they r not that good. In real life units tend not to fight alone. Archers for example wouldnt normaly fight alone. They would often have infantry to back them up. I also think there should be a crossbow unit for Civ3 which is a batter comarison to a musket then a longbow that posses some advantages of bolth weapons.

	07-12-2002 22:37									#93
	Support Apolyton

there is a longbow... and its better than msuketmen in attack.
longbows are 4/1/1 and musketmen are 2/4/1

also in the civil war, many people were stabbing each other with bayonets and such. Even tho guns were invented long ago, CQB still dominated a large portion of the battle.

	07-12-2002 22:44									#94
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Nick727 What it all boils down to is if knights attacked a force of Musketmen on open ground or even if the musketmen where in hills fact is the knights would roll over them. The Musketmen would MAYBE have time to get 2 shots off once the knights where withen effective range before they rode over the top of em.

It was fasterto shoot and more lethal to just learn how to shoot a bow than a musket. Musket take too much process of loadint the powder, packing it in, place the iron ball, aim and fire while for bow you just need to pluck aim fire.

Bow is also alot accurate compared to muskets. sometimes muskets just blew up on user's face, or shoot out in completely bizzare path because the barrel wasnt rifled.

Then why did the europeans used the muskets? well like all things new inventions often at start are lot worse of in the beginning.(remember how cell phones were almost UNUSABLE in late 80s early 90s?) Also, if u wanted to create a militia in haste, giving them a musket is lot more a reasonable thing to do than to teach them how to shoot a bow, which takes skills. Not all may have talent for great archery skills, but you can easily teach normal folks the process of loading a musket.

	08-12-2002 04:14									#95
	Got spare money?

I would think a crossbow would be even more effective n just as easy n safer then a musket dunno why they didnt stick with those as much opting for the musket insted.

	08-12-2002 10:20									#96
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Oh Nick727, thats a good Q. I forgot to mention another thing. Plucking is extremly hard. Crossbow makes this process lot easier (You pluck, lockin in) but its still no joke trying to pull that thing. Supposedly, musket is more suitable for all types of people in skill and age. But in truth, its was really hard to hold a rifle straigh as a young boy (those rifles were as tall as them and lot heavier)