12-11-2002 00:24									#1
	My review of PTW Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

So I finaly picked up PTW this last Friday night and checked it out over the weekend. I played both single player and internet games.


OK, the single player changes are great:

I loved the (E)xplore option for early warrior exploration. I just crank out two or three warriors and turn them loose to map the world for me. Every once in a while I will steer one around a bit to check out specifics, but mostly I just let em run.

The new civ types are fun, and even though I have only used the Celts so far, im looking forward to trying out the rest.

The changes to the display are nice, I thought the new resource pics are good.

The A/I is smarter now! I like it! I don't care what the devs say, the A/I is playing a better game now on Monarch than it did before. I actually lost a game the other night.

The new hot key heads up display for units is very nice.



OK, Now on to MP: (sigh)

MP sucks! I played an internet game with a friend on Sunday. We are both on cable modem, and we both use the same provider. We had green pings.

The game will lock up for extended periods of lag with no indication that it plans on comming back. If you hit commands while it is locked, they will sometimes stack and go off all at once when the game comes back.

Battles suck. The lag is bad, and if you get in a battle with someone most times it is tough just getting past the lag to get your commands in to your units before the game clock winds down. Now I love the game clock, but when the lag keeps you from even seeing what's happening, and when the screen jumps you from unit to unit before the unit you just attacked with has finished attacking, it's easy to screw up commands and get whacked by the lag gods with your turn ending while your still trying to get your units to even move, let alone attack what you are after.

When the turn starts, all the enemy units move at once. It is difficult to see what is going on. It is easy to miss units moving into your area. This would not be so bad, except that the game clock is going, and if you have to look over your entire map every turn to make sure someone is not sneeking up on you, your game clock will wind down while your looking around and not give you time to move your units too. The main problem seems to be that everything happens at once at the start of your turn, unlike the single player version where you can see the animations of the enemy units moving into your area as they happen. The MP version needs to animate each enemy unit just like the single player version, then start your game clock after they have all finished.

Random lock ups when accessing the build menu. I found that changing the build menu on a city while your turn clock is going is almost impossible. At times I would need to hit commands 5 or 6 times before they would take effect, and at times they would all go off at once and do the wrong thing.



I guess what it comes down to is that the single player version is great, but the MP version needs lots of help.

	12-11-2002 01:30									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I can only comment on the single player since I can't really commit to a MP game right now but there has been enough talk about MP already.
Single player is ok. Sure there are things added: a few extra civs, a few extra units, a wonder. But is it worth $44 (canadian)? Not a chance. It was worth maybe $20. I guess I will never learn. I paid extra for the limited edition which was a joke and then I ran out and bought PTW. I wish I would friggin wait for the reviews to come out. Had I waited and read the comments for CIV3 LE I would have saved my money and just bought the regular edition. Had I waited and read the reviews for PTW I wouldn't have bought it.
I will say that I will be very very reluctant to buy anything Firaxis again.
I have been hard on people who I termed whining about CIV3 but I take it all back. I used to be a supporter or Firaxis but not anymore. Hail the complainers and whiners as they were/are right!
PS: I like CIV3 but I think Firaxis/Infogrames is gouging all the fans of the series and that ain't right.

	12-11-2002 01:41									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Simpleton Single player is ok. Sure there are things added: a few extra civs, a few extra units, a wonder.

AND improved AI AND improved editor AND improved scenario support AND that should be "a lot of extra units" because you're forgetting the ~40 units in the WW2/Japan/Dinos packs. EDIT: AND auto-bombard AND next unit/city buttons AND all the new buttons so you don't have to use hotkeys.

	12-11-2002 01:43									#4
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Wow, I'm glad I saved my money and didn't get this game right away like I did with CivIII.

After reading the latest reviews on PTW I definately will not be buying this game anytime soon. I will not become a paying playtester for Firaxis. Surprised that they have all of these issues on MP online. They must have a bunch of rookie programmers working over there. I will wait until these issues are resolved before considering buying this product and then only if it is in the bargain bin.

Good luck to you all and I hope everything works out.

	12-11-2002 01:48									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Irrespecive of the quality of the game, you always face the choice of pay full price or wait for the LE or Goty or Gold or bundle.

	12-11-2002 02:00									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

I actually do like the changes they made to the game. It was worth the 29.95 I paid for the expansion. The changes to the hot keys and display alone were worth the money for me. The new units and civs are great, and the A/I is much better.

It is well worth the 29.95
Im looking forward to the patch with direct IP support.

	12-11-2002 03:15									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Zurai AND improved AI AND improved editor AND improved scenario support AND that should be "a lot of extra units" because you're forgetting the ~40 units in the WW2/Japan/Dinos packs. EDIT: AND auto-bombard AND next unit/city buttons AND all the new buttons so you don't have to use hotkeys.

I guess, but for me it still is not worth it. I usually never play scenarios or MODS as I prefer the classic game setup. Also, having a few extra buttons here and there is nice but is it worth that much money? Not in my opinion. However, if you find the features worth it great! I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Perhaps the reason I'm so resisitant to this expansion is that I still feel burned from the LE CIV3 fiasco!

	12-11-2002 06:46									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hey, the Civ3 LE version tin makes a GREAT container for all the Civ/PTW stuff!

	12-11-2002 07:28									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I was about to rush out to by PtW, then I started reading some of these dread reviews...

Is the AI really improved? And can Modern Armor still get raped by archers?

	12-11-2002 09:08									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Verto, I'm no expert on CIV3 but I will say that if there is a difference in the AI it is very subtle which maybe is not such a bad thing. As far as modern armor being raped by archers I personally haven't seen that. Every game has its questionable battles and they are not out of the ordinary from what I'd expect.
Airpower still seems pretty useless and I just use artillery since the planes cost too much and are too easy to shoot down.

	12-11-2002 10:23									#11
	Got spare money?

Sigh... we really don't need another new thread for each members "personal" review. There are many current threads where you are free to post your opinions... good or bad.