14-11-2002 10:03									#1
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Here,

Any idea you have, Write it down!!!
No matter how small,futile,stupid,insignificant you think it is, this is the place for it

	14-11-2002 15:51									#2
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I recall I had a brief notion of starting a team called the "Mercenaries Guild" who would be a moderate aggressive team, who are not so much concerned with their reputation as how much $$$ other teams fork out to hire them to start a war with another opponent or to keep them away. Kind of like a medieval hit-man type empire. The goal would have been to maintain a strong offensive and defensive army and to have a very strong industrial base so they could churn out the powerful units, and then use their 'blood' money to afford upkeep and keep everything going.

That would make a human "wild-card" team that will switch loyalties to the highest bidder, and could be hired to affect world affairs for the right price.

Was just an idea, I'm glad I didn't go through with it, even though I still think it would be very cool someday.

	14-11-2002 15:56									#3
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Actually Meshelic, I had the same idea myself...

Of course, any contract we picked up would have to have the potential to strengthen our position.

We shall see.

	14-11-2002 16:03									#4
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Would it usefull to have a homepage for this thing?

I can get one for free at my ISP (50mb), so....

	14-11-2002 17:43									#5
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Yeah, a homepage would be good. It'd be a decent place to store maps and old savegame files so we don't clutter up this forum.

Just remember to keep the URL secret.

(alva: are you a programmer? if not then I could help you make the homepage ... i don't know much, but have done this sort of thing before. If you a programmer then you'll be 100 times more qualified than me to do this)

	14-11-2002 17:49									#6
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I'm a wannabee programmer .
Well, actually, I'm a (retired)cook chef , going back to school soon I hope.

So any help would be very welcome indeed

I'll check on what I have to do to get it, probably just register the name and wait for approvel.

I do have frontpage, if it's of any help

	14-11-2002 17:56									#7
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Do you want to code it in HTML or do you know a bit of javascript or something else to use?

I only really know HTML myself (which has limited power), but that will be more than enough for what we need.

	14-11-2002 17:58									#8
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ahum,

"strike" this is it "strike"*

Will that do?

*error is intentional

Last edited by alva on 14-11-2002 at 18:03

	14-11-2002 19:01									#9
	Tired of ads?

The idea of being "mercenaries" is not so bad. For instance, we could offer teams like Legoland or Roleplay protection, for a price of course. Protection money.

Later, of course, we should cancel this contract, before finishing them . After all, we don't want a reputation hit, do we?

	14-11-2002 22:36									#10
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I like that mercenary idea. sounds like great fun.

	15-11-2002 00:21									#11
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Since this issue of betrayl and ubterfuge will naturaly come up soon, and as a member of the Diplomacy Schola, i suggest we work on a combined statement approved by all teams that whatever happens on the game, e.g betrayls, treaty breaking etc. hold no meaning out of our game, and that no pesonal and/or other non-game intentions are to be attached to those in-game acts, not from those who intiate that act of betrayl (or any act that has to do with foreign affairs for that matter) nor from the "recipient" side.
Of course this agreement cannot be enforced, but serves as a basis of understanding that this is a game between Apolytonians, and we are all buddies here, trying to have some fun and that we don't want this to eventually turn into an ugly intter-team mud fighting.

If this idea gets positive responses from the members of our team, i'll try to lead this initiative, with the help of my fellow Diplomats.

	15-11-2002 02:20									#12
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A couple of basic reminders:

1) goodie huts. Unless this was changed in PtW, you cannot get a settler from a hut if you a) have an active settler, b) are building one, or c) have more than the average number of cities per civ in the game.

Therefore, we should remember to change up production of settlers (switch to granaries or something) before popping huts, and if we have a hut that is kinda isolated, I would even hold off popping it if we have a settler in route to a city spot - let the settler build the city, and THEN pop the hut.

Trust me, since I learned the "rules" of hut popping, I've done better. This may not help us (my hut luck on Emperor has been, overall, atrocious).

-Arrian

	15-11-2002 02:23									#13
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Trading the AI techs:

FACT: Ancient wonders cost a lot of shields, and thus will probably be a bad idea for us to try and build. Therefore, it is a good idea to try and get any AI neighbors we may have to build them for us. If we start as an industrious civ, or gain masonry from a hut, we should immediately trade it to the AI civs for as much as we can get for it.

If we have a neighbor building a juicy wonder (Pyramids, Great Library, whatever), to the extent we can trigger their GA (hopefully by getting an alliance w/them vs. another civ, but perhaps by attacking them), we should, to help them complete it for us.

-Arrian

	15-11-2002 04:02									#14
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Arrian, you gotta get some experience with PTW.

Question: What to we do about reputation with the AI versus human civs?

	15-11-2002 04:20									#15
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A reputation hit vs the AI doesn't matter. I expect them to be gone at the end of the ancient age. A reputation hit vs a human civ IMHO does matter.

	15-11-2002 05:01									#16
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any clash of military strength between human civs will not be ended quickly unless both civs realise the futiility of war, if both are suffering heavy losses then that opens up our's and their territory to conquest by the other human civ.

Remember! a human civ will NOT forget a rep hit from us as easily as the AI does. So our dealings with the humans should be very carefully plotted, planned and executed.

	15-11-2002 12:03									#17
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Agreed. If we do not act with honour towards human teams, no team will forget it. And people complained about how the AIs hold grudges. Wait till you see how long the memories of humans are. They do not end when one game is over.

	15-11-2002 19:17									#18
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I agree - honor towards other human teams, no scruples whatsoever vs. the AI.

-Arrian

	16-11-2002 18:40									#19
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This honour issue can also work as a diplmoatic weapon- we should keep treating other with honour as long as it pays us, and make it look like they are disrespecting us and agreemenst to hit their rep.

Make it look like the team is preparing for war, or about to break treaty or take advantage of a given situation, in a way that helps us acquire allies and hinders theirs.

	17-11-2002 07:12									#20
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I just had a thought, which would be quite bothersome to the other groups... it's a bit related to the mercenary idea.

Whenever we are fully ready to go to war (preferrably when we're the biggest power), and we see two of our neighbours starting a fight, we could hold an auction on the main page... in full sight. The idea is that once it is our turn, we post a message on the board, saying that we've got two battleplans ready, one for each civ, and we're going to sell our support to he who bids highest. Mulitple bids are possible, within a fixed time limit. In return, we'll stay away from him (or sign a ROP+MPP), attack the others, and generally stay nice for the next 10 or 20 turns or so.

I'm curious what other civs would offer... techs, cities,... and I'm certainly interested if we would see a lot of bidding on our help. Let's say both sides get a fixed time limit of 18 hours, leaving us 6 hours to play the first turn, I'm certainly curious if in those last few minutes the bids go up

DeepO

	17-11-2002 07:31									#21
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I was actually thinking the same thing, with a slight variation.
Sign an agreement with civ A ,
go to civ B (A & B are at war btw)
Sign another agreement with B,
Wait a couple of turns
attack A (they will have to be wiped out at this point)
then go back after B

	17-11-2002 07:41									#22
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Ah.. but that won't be very honorable, and it means yu have to be able to overpower them completely. My idea was to sell our power for some juicy goods (without at least 1 city and a couple of techs we wouldn't do it), tilting the balance, but in the mean time we get an ally who is happy to see us, and willing to pay even! It sounds like a business plan

DeepO

	17-11-2002 07:55									#23
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Guess , I'm just not a very honorable person in this game

Although, i don't know any honorable mercenairies either

	17-11-2002 08:01									#24
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well... I don't know any mercenaries, so no honorable either, but in history there have been quite a few of them. As long as payment comes in, you stick to those who have hired you, even if the other side tries to bribe you.

The real issue here is that when you throw yuor services up for grabs, you achieve 2 goals: you kind of vasalize one civ (he who has to pay us to get in our liking), while using the combined forces to bash the other civ. Whatever the outcome, you gain twice, while one civ can gain a little, the other loses badly.

The beauty of it is that if the two warring civs would combine their strengths to fight you they would prolly win, but who is going to do that when they just entered a war? It would be the logical solution from their PoV, but humans are not logical at all

DeepO

	17-11-2002 08:09									#25
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quote: (he who has to pay us to get in our liking

True, but they would still not like us (not that it matters)

And I still say that once the other is gone, you hit on the other. Then you really have achieved your two goals

quote: It would be the logical solution from their PoV, but humans are not logical at all

We must never forget that

	17-11-2002 08:20									#26
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quote: Originally posted by alva848 And I still say that once the other is gone, you hit on the other. Then you really have achieved your two goals

Sure... but I think the best deals would be those where we solemnly promise to not attack right away after we punished the first civ... e.g. leave at least a 10 turn peace in between attacks. Again, we can use this to our advantage: we sell it like it's the part of the deal that will protect them the most, while in the mean time we use this time to regroup, reinforce, and either attack them once the peace has gone, or take on someone else.

DeepO

	17-11-2002 08:33									#27
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I really like the idea of selling our loyalties to the highest bidder, especially in FULL VIEW OF EVERYONE. HAHA! Guns for hire....love it. Do you think that they may leave us alone more because of it or gang up on us because of it?

I would feel saddened however if the RolePlay team or some team hires us to destroy Legoland and we DID....but alas that is life, that is war and that is the talking. I feel a slight affection for those guys since they are so cute and fuzzy.

Really good ideas here guys, you make the Diplomacy Schola proud.

	17-11-2002 08:42									#28
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quote: Really good ideas here guys, you make the Diplomacy Schola proud.

If belgians are good at anything,.....


OT: the worst thing btw, is underestimating both RPG é Lego.
True, they are probably more inclined to more defensive en other teams, but they could shift any balance of power IMHO.

It would make some thread though !!

	17-11-2002 09:02									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic I really like the idea of selling our loyalties to the highest bidder, especially in FULL VIEW OF EVERYONE. HAHA! Guns for hire....love it. Do you think that they may leave us alone more because of it or gang up on us because of it?

No way are we going to be looked upon friendly, once they realize that whatever they do they will lose relatively to us, they won't be pleased. I think we can only pull this off once, but if done right once is all we need

And of course the public selling is what is going to make this brilliant, I really hope we will be able to do it. (that is, we are in a position to sell our services, instead of having others to come to our rescue)

As to the schola, I think I'm going to join the diplomatic one, simply because it will be the biggest learning experience for me. Okay, we are Belgians, so it is in our blood, but still...
I'm still hesitating on the other one though.

DeepO

	17-11-2002 09:06									#30
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Same here, I'm not a economic by heart, but it's not like we running short on generals, are we