 |
| |
|
|
Meshelic
|
 |
Bringer of Peace, Destroyer of Worlds
Sep 2002
time: 21:23
|
|
THESE DEMOGRAPHICS ARE CLASSIFIED! (sorry had to add that in, makes it sound cool)  But in fact all information is taken directly from their open PTW threads before privatized threads were open to teams. I have attempted thus to describe their operations as specifically as possible. No spies were harmed in the making of this document. 
CURRENT MEMBERS
Jack _www
Spiffor
Odin
redstar1
ZargonX
aliatar
Colonel Kraken *
Nimitz *
CURRENT POTENTIAL LEADERS
Jack _www Not much is known, but his posts have shown that he favors industrious/militaristic or industrious/commercial civs. Founder of Legoland and likely 1st President.
Spiffor Democratic Industrialists Member for the Civ3DemoGame. Strong advocate for builder tendencies, probably has the most experience of all players on the team. If I'm also correct he was former Minister of the Economy in the CVDG game as well, so he is a veteran of economics and has the ability to lead and make important domestic decisions. Can be assumed to be a principal advisor to Jack_www and will most likely lead the Legoland faction several terms.
GOVERNMENT TYPE
Due to their small numbers, they have adopted a government set-up that allows them to have the following positions:
President
Foreign Affairs Minister
Internal Affairs Minister
Defense Minister
Infrastructure
They had discussed making a unique move for their government in their Foreign Affairs Department. Their only recorded strategy recorded was to assign each member as a diplomat to each team, serving as ambassador and representative. They seem to believe that this way each person becomes an expert on a particular Human or AI civ and is treated as such.
CURRENT CIV PICKS
Carthage
Persia
Egypt
They will paper-rock-scissors the RolePlay team for Carthage, but their main backup choice is undecided between Persia and Egypt.
LEGOLAND GOALS W/ADDITIONAL DESCRIPTION
To build an influential and efficient empire that puts more of their workload into culture improvements, city improvements, and Wonders. Intention is to keep defense at minimum but strong enough to withstand attack. After building a satisfactory defensive force they will most likely focus on Infrastructure and Culture.
* edited members section
Last edited by Meshelic on 16-11-2002 at 02:10
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
zeit
|
 |
Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:23
|
|
quote:
Great work Meshelic. That's exactly the kind of info we need.
|
Indeed, kodus for Meshellic for his well put preliminary intel reports.
I agree that this can be a more convinient neighbor to start next to- but i consider thess as a low priority target for invasion, as i bet they'll focus on defense early on, to get a strong base on which to safely develop. If they make a critical mistake and build early on, they'll might make good targets for early attacks, perhaps MW raids...
But, i doubt they'll make such an obvious mistake, and i picture them as heavily defended city complexes, that would reach their full potential at the late middle ages-early industrial.
On the diplomatic note- they would durely make good trade partners- they'll need to focus on trade and diplomacy in their dealings with other civs, to make sure other civs are less keen on attacking them, and to strengthen their economyand infrastructure, that would need lyton to keep developing.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Meshelic
|
|
Bringer of Peace, Destroyer of Worlds
Sep 2002
time: 21:23
|
|
Should we begin close enough to Legoland, I am confident we will have a peaceful border with them, and we probably will live in an extended period of peace. They will build their temples and cathedrals and harbors, and we'll be hopefully building a great amount of city improvements and military units.
One thing that WILL undoubtedly make them nervous: A larger, more powerful neighbor. No doubt that they will be constructing many many more units for defense out of fright of the other nation. So if we begin next to them, in a situation where we both have the same chances of success, I would recommend we maintain terms of peace, keep up good diplomatic relations with them, and keep up a friendly status with them.
You can also assume that they will be making peace with everyone they can and hoping that nobody invades. They are in a tight spot : imagine them stuck in the middle of Lux Invictica, Glory of War, and Gathering Storm. That would make them very very nervous, as all three of us have warmongering tendencies (even though we're a bit more moderate and so is LUxInvictica)...
|
|
| |
|
|
|
asleepathewheel
|
|
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:23
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Ralph
They did the paper-rock-scissors thing. I was the judge. Roleplay won. However, they're thinking of gifting the builders Carthage. |
hmm. interesting way of building good will before the game.
damnit, we should have thought of that!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Dominae
|
|
I'm playing in a PBEM game with Jack_www and redstar1. Depending on how devious I feel I might post some info on their strategies here (that is, if ever our games I meet their civ before 2005...RL-time).
Dominae
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
DeepO
|
 |
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:23
|
|
Hmm.. that would certainly seem a good UU to get some AI bashing done, after which you retreat in your fortified towns. They are an alternative for spearmen, right? so that way they can be upgraded as well. Getting a slightly offensive unit which doubles as a defender, and is in the upgrade path of defense certainly is the builder approach, this way they shouldn't focus on offense early on.
Other choices of them seem to indicate the same thing: Egypt would have been a better choice for the same strategy, with one problem: they blow their golden age too early (for us too, of course, but I couldn't care less). Persia the same, but their UU is timed a bit later, which will have it's uses on certain maps, and some not. Both civs have the problem that their UU needs a resource, which possibly they should war for, I can imagine that as a builder they choose the more conservative approach. And commercial... well... good for less corruption, but it is a gamble as they could end up with the least cities of all members. But the biggest for sure.
Further thoughts: wonders. They will certainly go for them, and we should look out here. Certain key wonders should not fall in their hands, certainly not the happiness wonders... let them pay for their luxuries they need to keep those marketplaces going.
DeepO
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Dominae
|
|
The Numidian Mercs are 2/3/1 for 30 Shields. So they're perfect for Legoland's overall strategy.
Dominae
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Meshelic
|
|
Bringer of Peace, Destroyer of Worlds
Sep 2002
time: 21:23
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DeepO
Hmm.. that would certainly seem a good UU to get some AI bashing done, after which you retreat in your fortified towns. They are an alternative for spearmen, right? |
Yes that is correct. The only problem I foresee for Carthage is just their VERY early Golden Age, which starts right off the bat it seems. Same way for Egypt though as you pointed out as well.
For their goals, Carthage is a very good defensive builder-type civ, and I think Legoland made a pretty good choice, although I'd like to also comment that it was the Roleplayers who gave up their claim to Carthage so they could give it to Legoland....
quote:
this way they shouldn't focus on offense early on. |
I don't believe they will either. Legoland knows that there are three pretty good warlike civs out there, LI, GS and GoW. So they are certainly going to be on guard, as war has not been mentioned as a primary goal of the Legolanders. I think that they picked probably the best defensive civ, other than Greece, who's Hoplite has a significantly strong defense....
quote:
And commercial... well... good for less corruption, but it is a gamble as they could end up with the least cities of all members. But the biggest for sure. |
Their cities will be full of gold that is for sure. Any city captured of theirs will probably yield quite a bundle of captured booty, workers, etc.
quote:
Further thoughts: wonders. They will certainly go for them, and we should look out here. Certain key wonders should not fall in their hands, certainly not the happiness wonders... let them pay for their luxuries they need to keep those marketplaces going.
DeepO |
Which wonders would you designate as 'key' wonders that should not be allowed in their hands? Adam Smith's Trading Company comes to mind personally, that combined with their commercial trait will make them tons of money. I could see them building Colossus pretty early...at the risk of not building enough units.
Which is another question : at what point do we all think that the Legolanders will risk building city improvements over military units? Are we all under the impression that they will build MINIMAL military and focus naively on building wonders and city improvements, or do we think they'll catch on and realize that military might is a huge necessity in this game?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Dominae
|
|
Depending on how warlike we're feeling, it may be a good idea to attack Legoland early in order to get their GA out of the way (just throw a Warrior at one of their Mercs). Needless to say, this will cause a bad rep with them, but with a UU like that we simply can't take them on early, and if they can still jump into a GA in the Middle ages we're at a disadvantage. Thus, we can feint them into thinking we're crazy enough to assault them early on, and they'll waste a lot of precious resources preparing for war while we're doing something else.
Dominae
|
|
| |
|
|
|
DeepO
|
|
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:23
|
|
A few remarks: I don't know how far this game is going to get, but I wouldn't think Smith is that important for the simple reason that game will be won / lost by that time. Otherwise I'd agree. Key wonders I was thinking on was indeed the Colossus, which would be a good wonder for smaller civs with large cities (which fits the profile of the legos) & the happiness wonders. military wonders won't be so important, with possibly the exception of the great wall: I don't think anyone will be going to build a lot of city walls, except the defensive legos, the GW would be a very powerful wonder for them (at least, if I was on that team it would be my number one goal)
Golden Age: Egypt is around the same time as they will be, but we choose instead of be attacked. That's a big difference: if the terrains is right, we can hold off until we are getting Monarchy (if that is going to be our goal, instead of Rep.). They don't have that choice. However, we will have to be very careful to start a war to trigger their GA: it has to be super early, and we need good defense / offense ourselves. Plus, it will make them hold a grudge for the rest of the game.
I think the legos themselves will trigger it relatively early, by warring against an AI. That UU is too sweet to pass on.
DeepO (off to lunch)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
 |
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:23
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Meshelic
Yes that is correct. The only problem I foresee for Carthage is just their VERY early Golden Age, which starts right off the bat it seems. Same way for Egypt though as you pointed out as well. |
The early golden age is only an issue if you get in a fight. If Legoland gets their way, they won't get in any wars that force them to use their UU, so they can trigger their GA with wonders at whatever time is both feasible and appropriate.
Egypt also has the option of deferring its GA, at least if no one forces its hand. One of my favorite Egyptian tactics is to built up a large War Chariot force while researching Monarchy and then trigger my GA right after switching governments. Not only do some tiles produce more under Monarchy, but a lot less of the extra production and wealth is lost to waste and corruption.
quote:
Their cities will be full of gold that is for sure. Any city captured of theirs will probably yield quite a bundle of captured booty, workers, etc. |
"Builder" does not automatically mean "rich." My bet is that they'll invest very heavily in science, meaning that if the rest of us fight each other, they could pull away with a pretty nice tech lead, at least for a while. Further, their builder approach will probably keep them from getting big enough to do 4-turn research with a gold surplus, in which case they may tend to stay pretty cash-poor. Also, Carthage is industrious, and so can't be expected to have as many workers as a non-industrious civ would need.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:23
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
Depending on how warlike we're feeling, it may be a good idea to attack Legoland early in order to get their GA out of the way (just throw a Warrior at one of their Mercs). Needless to say, this will cause a bad rep with them, but with a UU like that we simply can't take them on early, and if they can still jump into a GA in the Middle ages we're at a disadvantage. Thus, we can feint them into thinking we're crazy enough to assault them early on, and they'll waste a lot of precious resources preparing for war while we're doing something else. |
A bad reputation with human players can cause a LOT more problems than a bad reputation with AIs. For the most part, a furious AI is willing to make pretty much the same trade deals as a polite one. In contrast, a furious human player or team is likely to strongly prefer to trade with others instead of trading with us whenever practical.
Before we get anyone mad at us, we need to be very careful that our prospective gains outweigh our prospective losses. And in my view, making a game-long enemy just to get a civ to blow its golden age early doesn't even come close to qualifying.
Nathan
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Dominae
|
|
nbarclay, I posted in another thread concerning "game ethics", so I will try not to repeat myself here.
I think the fear of having a bad rep with human opponents is largely unsubstantiated. Are we never to attack anyone, and if so, on what terms? I hope that most of the other teams (that is, the members that comprise them) will not start holding grudges for no good reason. I don't consider an early attack to be a good reason to be permanently pissed off, because it is clearly a part of the game. Of course, I wouldn't expect them to give us all their techs anytime in the near future, but you're making it sound like anyone we attack we will be on bad terms with forever. If that is really how MP works (my experience being negligible), then I much prefer the SP experience where you can attack someone yet still have diplomatic agreements with them in the future.
Dominae
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:23.
Apolyton Time is 00:23. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
14-11-2002 10:15
, but a powerfull one. 
) Oh, building settlers will never outREX an early warmonger, not even if they start in the middle of floodlands. I do hope they think they will, though 
|