31-03-2003 19:35									#31
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We don't know yet. Either 10.3 or 10.2.5... it'll probably be 10.3 but it's as of yet unknown.

www.macosrumors.com has some info on it and the G5.

	01-04-2003 12:02									#32
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They oughta rename it "Cheetah."

	02-04-2003 19:33									#33
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Especially since it'll probably beat the 2GHz barrier.

	07-04-2003 08:28									#34
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Hey listen. I'm running my cable through a router and I can't host games unless I bypass it. But I can, can't I? If I do some configuring? Anyone know what or how?

	07-04-2003 18:27									#35
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ugh... I have no clue... is it a firewall problem that is keeping you from giving out your IP or what?

	08-04-2003 04:49									#36
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Mmmm. Now you're really exposing my IT ignorance. I run my wife's and my computer off a router which is connected to the cable. It's not a firewall, per se, but the router has its own address, which is not my computer's address. If I set up a game, the IP I get is the router's IP. If I give out the router's address for a Civ game, no one is able to connect because all they're getting is the router.

If, OTOH, I bypass the router and plug my computer straight into the cable, I get my computer's IP and other players can connect.

I gather there's some way of (as it were) giving the router my computer's IP, thus letting other players connect with the game through the router.

	08-04-2003 10:23									#37
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Actually I have done somethign similar, I can play civ from behind my firewall by giving the IP of the firewall when hosting. All civ traffic is then redirected to my other, civ playing computer.
I'd love to tell you how this was done but I have no idea, my dad set it all up a few years ago. ;o

Not sure how helpfull this was,oh well

	08-04-2003 10:28									#38
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Yes, there is. Part of the problem though is at least here in the States if you want more IP addresses, you have to pay for them. If you and your wife are wanting to play a game, I would recommend disconnecting from the 'net entirely and just using local IP addresses via AppleTalk. If you're wanting both your and your wife's computer to be online at the same time while you host a game and she hosts another one (or could have the ability to do so) you need to set up the router to assign IP addresses. I'm not exactly sure how to do it myself (it's different with different routers) so you'll need to read the instructions to yours... but I would also for sure ask your ISP because if they find out that you're hosting more IP adresses than they've sold you, you could get into serious trouble (here I've heard of them banning you from their network but continuing to pay their monthly charges for a little while... read your ISP agreement.)

I hope that helped... I'm tired and a little out of it...

	10-04-2003 10:29									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Henrik Actually I have done somethign similar, I can play civ from behind my firewall by giving the IP of the firewall when hosting. All civ traffic is then redirected to my other, civ playing computer. I'd love to tell you how this was done but I have no idea, my dad set it all up a few years ago. ;o Not sure how helpfull this was,oh well

The router has an address but it's not an IP address. It's a few numbers short. Anyone who tries to connect with it gets thin air.

	10-04-2003 10:33									#40
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash Yes, there is. Part of the problem though is at least here in the States if you want more IP addresses, you have to pay for them. If you and your wife are wanting to play a game, I would recommend disconnecting from the 'net entirely and just using local IP addresses via AppleTalk.

No, the two computers aren't used together for games. Mrs finbar only plays those silly Tetris-type games.

quote: If you're wanting both your and your wife's computer to be online at the same time while you host a game and she hosts another one (or could have the ability to do so) you need to set up the router to assign IP addresses. I'm not exactly sure how to do it myself (it's different with different routers) so you'll need to read the instructions to yours...

It's not even that complicated. I just want to give the router an IP address so that other players can connect with my hosted game via the router. If that's possible.

quote: but I would also for sure ask your ISP because if they find out that you're hosting more IP adresses than they've sold you, you could get into serious trouble (here I've heard of them banning you from their network but continuing to pay their monthly charges for a little while... read your ISP agreement.)

The extra address isn't a problem. With my account, I'm allowed two.

	11-04-2003 06:24									#41
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I would think your router's instructions would have a way to do it then... how do you manage your router? There may be something in there that would clue you in.

	13-04-2003 03:54									#42
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Finbar... first of all (to go back a couple of pages)

128 Mb simply is not enough to run OS X. If your trying to run Classic as well... even worse. What you are seeing is the system swapping in and out of your swapfile constantly.

You should really buy some memory... it's pretty inexpensive these days. I'd shoot for no less than 512Mb if possible.

As for your router issue... From your description it sounds like your 2 machines have individual addresses, both obtained from your provider, and your cable modem is sort of "transparent"? In that scenario it sounds like you should be able to host games (unless your router is blocking ports for some reason.

A more common scenario would be the modem (with a valid IP address) connected to a hub/switch/router of some sort which is acting as a firewall/VPN serving DHCP. In this case you would need to tell it to forward the appropriate port to the server machine (as was noted above).

Last edited by Insane on 13-04-2003 at 04:14

	13-04-2003 11:10									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Insane 128 Mb simply is not enough to run OS X. If your trying to run Classic as well... even worse. What you are seeing is the system swapping in and out of your swapfile constantly. You should really buy some memory... it's pretty inexpensive these days. I'd shoot for no less than 512Mb if possible.

Yeah, I kind of figured the memory was the problem. As soon as I get a chance I'm going to load it up. It's ridiculous that Apple are selling computers with OS X with so little memory installed. As you say, it's not that expensive anymore, so it can hardly be that they're wanting to make zillions out of selling extra RAM.

quote: A more common scenario would be the modem (with a valid IP address) connected to a hub/switch/router of some sort which is acting as a firewall/VPN serving DHCP. In this case you would need to tell it to forward the appropriate port to the server machine (as was noted above).

I think this is the situation rather than the first one you suggested. From checking around, I gather I should be able to tell the router exactly what you say. I should be able to access the router via a browser. Except when I try to, I get blocked with a message telling me I've run into a "Protected Object". I've tried to track down this problem on the 'net but with no luck.

I gather from tech websites that the Netgear RT311 is pretty obsolete these days anyway, so I think I'll lash out for something more sophisticated when I get the extra RAM.

	14-04-2003 19:00									#44
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That sucks that you can't use your current router though. What browser are you trying to get to it in? I remember trying to use Safari to get to my cousin's and it didn't work at all.

	14-04-2003 19:37									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Insane Finbar... first of all (to go back a couple of pages) 128 Mb simply is not enough to run OS X. If your trying to run Classic as well... even worse. What you are seeing is the system swapping in and out of your swapfile constantly. You should really buy some memory... it's pretty inexpensive these days. I'd shoot for no less than 512Mb if possible.

I just got OS X a few days ago and I run civ perfectly well on my 128mbs ram computer (with several OS x apps and a few os 9 apps running at the same time).
Don't get too much swapping either...

	14-04-2003 20:25									#46
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What's your processor like?

	15-04-2003 02:03									#47
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400 mhz G4...

	15-04-2003 03:37									#48
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I have 192Mb in my Lombard (G3/400) and it pages fairly regularly. The more fragmented your hard drive, the more you are going to notice it (mine is badly fragmented, but that's a different headache) I haven't decided if I should add memory, or replace the machine... but selling older hardware is always such a pain.

	15-04-2003 10:13									#49
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quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash That sucks that you can't use your current router though. What browser are you trying to get to it in? I remember trying to use Safari to get to my cousin's and it didn't work at all.

I've got 3 browsers:

1. Safari, as with you, didn't work at all. It wouldn't even take me to the password login. I typed in the address, hit the return key, and nothing happened. Safari's great, it's my browser of choice, but does have its quirks, I've found.

2. Mozilla takes me to the password login, which I fill in, but it won't take me any further.

3. IE - my desperate last resort - gets me past the password login but takes me straight to the error message that says "Protected Area" (or similar).

	15-04-2003 10:19									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Insane I have 192Mb in my Lombard (G3/400) and it pages fairly regularly. The more fragmented your hard drive, the more you are going to notice it (mine is badly fragmented, but that's a different headache) I haven't decided if I should add memory, or replace the machine... but selling older hardware is always such a pain.

Yet again my computer ignorance is being exposed. I've had this computer about 6 weeks. Can the HD already be fragmented?

The telling thing with my Civ problem, though, is that it runs even slower if I have any other apps open. If I shut everything else down, it's better. Nowhere near as good as it ran when I only had 9.2, but better.

	15-04-2003 20:50									#51
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It is unlikely that your drive is fragmented after only 6 weeks, but nothing is impossible.

As with OS 9, the more things you have running, the more memory you are going to use. Under OS 9, you could only open as many applications as you had memory for. Under OS X, you have an effectively unlimited Virtual Memory swapfile. As you open more applications, more stuff gets pushed into the swapfile. The more contention you have for the physical memory, the more thrashing you get.

Don't forget that OS X is based on UNIX. There are a lot of things running under the covers that you don't see too. Note the information below (cut from the "top" command). I have 5 applications running (including the finder), but behind the scenes there are 45 processes running.

Processes: 45 total, 2 running, 43 sleeping... 106 threads 08:42:49
Load Avg: 1.33, 0.86, 0.76 CPU usage: 35.7% user, 14.3% sys, 50.0% idl
SharedLibs: num = 92, resident = 20.0M code, 1.79M data, 5.73M LinkEdit
MemRegions: num = 2899, resident = 53.8M + 5.78M private, 49.1M shared
PhysMem: 28.4M wired, 104M active, 56.9M inactive, 190M used, 2.39M free
VM: 1.06G + 52.7M 7493(0) pageins, 2720(0) pageouts

Some of these processes are probably in the swapfile, some in RAM, and some are probably timed tasks which get paged into RAM when they need to run.

To summarize, the less you have running the better, but in the end you're still at the whim of the system.

	16-04-2003 04:18									#52
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quote: Originally posted by finbar 3. IE - my desperate last resort - gets me past the password login but takes me straight to the error message that says "Protected Area" (or similar).

Now that's strange... when my cousin loaned me his... my IE was all that would do it... have you changed the password on it at all accidentally?

	16-04-2003 16:36									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Insane It is unlikely that your drive is fragmented after only 6 weeks, but nothing is impossible. As with OS 9, the more things you have running, the more memory you are going to use. Under OS 9, you could only open as many applications as you had memory for. Under OS X, you have an effectively unlimited Virtual Memory swapfile. As you open more applications, more stuff gets pushed into the swapfile. The more contention you have for the physical memory, the more thrashing you get. Don't forget that OS X is based on UNIX. There are a lot of things running under the covers that you don't see too. Note the information below (cut from the "top" command). I have 5 applications running (including the finder), but behind the scenes there are 45 processes running. Processes: 45 total, 2 running, 43 sleeping... 106 threads 08:42:49 Load Avg: 1.33, 0.86, 0.76 CPU usage: 35.7% user, 14.3% sys, 50.0% idl SharedLibs: num = 92, resident = 20.0M code, 1.79M data, 5.73M LinkEdit MemRegions: num = 2899, resident = 53.8M + 5.78M private, 49.1M shared PhysMem: 28.4M wired, 104M active, 56.9M inactive, 190M used, 2.39M free VM: 1.06G + 52.7M 7493(0) pageins, 2720(0) pageouts Some of these processes are probably in the swapfile, some in RAM, and some are probably timed tasks which get paged into RAM when they need to run. To summarize, the less you have running the better, but in the end you're still at the whim of the system.

All that information is truly terrifying! In the sense that I'm truly terrified that I know nothing about it!

All I do know is that, regardless of whatever problems I have with Civ running slowly, I wouldn't touch a PC with a bargepole!

	16-04-2003 16:38									#54
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quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash Now that's strange... when my cousin loaned me his... my IE was all that would do it... have you changed the password on it at all accidentally?

No, my failed attempts to talk to the router were the first time I'd ever tried it. What's really annoying me is that I can't find any reference to the problem anywhere on the 'net. And, as you'd know, you can usually find a reference to just about anything somewhere on the 'net.

	21-04-2003 20:57									#55
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I guess it is an old router that needs some help... ?

	24-04-2003 07:43									#56
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As I was saying before the server so rudely interrupted me - Yes!

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