14-11-2002 19:54									#1
	CivII On X.2.2 Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Just so anybody wandering here knows: Under Classic environment and in X.2.2 CivII works great.

The only thing you need to do is set the Dock to hide iteself, otherwise you won't be able to access the full screen.

	30-12-2002 23:29									#2
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Noted

	18-02-2003 12:49									#3
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I'm running 10.2 and the game's very jerky even after cranking up the memory. The screen actually wipes slowly as it moves around the map.

	19-02-2003 19:23									#4
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What's your processor speed, what other programs are you running, and how much RAM do you have?

On a 500 MHz G4 (non-dual) it goes fine.

Same with SMAC and CtP...

	21-02-2003 06:44									#5
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quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash What's your processor speed, what other programs are you running, and how much RAM do you have? On a 500 MHz G4 (non-dual) it goes fine. Same with SMAC and CtP...

700 MHz G4, 128MB. It's creaky even with nothing else running. It behaves as though it doesn't have enough memory allocated, but it does, because I cranked it up. It's a total mystery to me. It ran perfectly well on my old G3 with OS 9.2. For some reason, it won't run the same way in Classic.

	21-02-2003 19:21									#6
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hmmm.... and you have all the latest patches to OS X and all that, right? This is getting stranger and stranger... Might want to post in the Mac forum itself to see if anybody else has had the same problems.

	22-02-2003 07:02									#7
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Latest patches to OS X? Not sure what you mean.

	22-02-2003 08:03									#8
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Well, what version of X.2 are you using? It's up to X.2.4 now... just use the software update in the system preferences.

	23-02-2003 06:37									#9
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Ah, okay. I'm using 10.2.4.

I actually backed up my existing Civ folder and reloaded Civ from the CD. Found the last Mac patch on the 'net - 1.1.1 - and downloaded it, but there's an error message when I try to update the reloaded Civ. I found the patch elsewhere and downloaded it again - in case the first one was faulty - and I still get the error message. Very strange.

	23-02-2003 13:32									#10
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How to patch civ 2 v.1.0 to version 1.1.1.

	24-02-2003 05:02									#11
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Ah ha!

How does it work now?

	27-02-2003 16:33									#12
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Thanks, Henrik, but it still doesn't work. I get the stupid error message.

I remember I didn't have the error message problem way back when I originally installed the patch.

	07-03-2003 21:08									#13
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Any new words, finbar?

Have you changed anything... it's odd that when you originally installed the patch it worked, but now doesn't...

	10-03-2003 16:37									#14
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Nothing's changed. I'm living with creaky Civ.

I didn't have a problem with the updater last time. The only possible difference between last time and this time is that, last time, it wouldn't have been the original version that I was updating. There had already been numerous patches released and that I'd installed. But that shouldn't make a difference, I'd've thought.

	10-03-2003 19:31									#15
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*nods* Still very strange... I wouldn't be surprised if the extra patches are needed or something... How big is just the CivII app? Maybe I could .sit it and send it your way? That way we'd see if it was something to do with your comp, or whatnot, since I know the file works well on mine.

	11-03-2003 04:03									#16
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It's 1.7MB.

I don't think it's a problem with a lack of the intermediate patches - those between the original game and the last v1.1.1. I think there were about 5 patches in all - 1.1b1-2-3-4 and then 1.1.1. I recall that each new patch contained everything that had come before - so to speak - thus any of them upgraded the original game to that point.

I've got 128MB RAM. I was going to increase it anyway. I'll see if that makes a difference.

	12-03-2003 10:51									#17
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That might... I've got 640...

	12-03-2003 16:07									#18
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But it should run perfectly well on 128!

	12-03-2003 19:39									#19
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Though how many extenstions do you still have running when Classic starts up? I remember OS 9, when I ran that, native, would eat about 75MB just because I had way too many extensions and crap.

	17-03-2003 04:39									#20
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I've tried it with absolutely nothing else running. It's still creaky. I think you're probably right, though, it's Classic chewing up capacity. I'll crank up the RAM.

Jeez, I find this Classic/0S 10 structure cumbersome! Everything was so much simpler in 9.2!

	19-03-2003 23:30									#21
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True... Though how many times would 9.2 lock up on you and then you be forced to restart your entire system?

I love the stability of X over 9.2. What's strange to me is the fact that you have a 700MHz machine and mine seems to be having better luck with 9.2 and X.2 running together... do you think all it is is the extra RAM?

((Though I wouldn't be surprised if your comp could still kick my comp ))

	24-03-2003 04:36									#22
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quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash True... Though how many times would 9.2 lock up on you and then you be forced to restart your entire system?

I had very few freeze problems. Eventually. The problem with 9.2 was that it - obviously - came with a lot of stuff designed to run with 10. I spent a bit of time haunting the the Mac OS9 user forums where the real Mac expert users hang out and there were plenty of solutions offered for 9.2 stability problems. There were at least three 9.2 extensions that were exclusively 10-oriented and could be trashed. Lo and behold, they made 9.2 a lot more stable.

quote: What's strange to me is the fact that you have a 700MHz machine and mine seems to be having better luck with 9.2 and X.2 running together... do you think all it is is the extra RAM? ((Though I wouldn't be surprised if your comp could still kick my comp ))

I just find the combo cumbersome. How do you - for example - adjust memory allocation in one of the 9.2 applications without rebooting in OS9.2? You can't do it from OS10. I've tried. Unless there's a way I don't know about.

Civ is the only app that I've found to be affected in speed terms. And I really do think it's a RAM problem.

Other than that, I think the Emac is terrific. My wife bought one of the new iMac desklamp models. I went out to get one, too, but discovered the Emac offered identical capabilities - apart from the design and the flat screen - for $OZ 2000 less.

	24-03-2003 20:13									#23
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I've never needed to adjust memory allocation... maybe that's part of the problem... I'm slowly converting all of my programs to X... finally picked up Office V.X and GoLive, now I just need Photoshop and I'll be almost 9.2 free (except for Civ II, CtP, and SMAX of course.)

I would suppose that you've already tried starting in 9.2, increasing RAM in Civ II and then restarting in X, right?

Model probably doesn't have anything to do with it... be sure to let us know when you do get a RAM upgrade... I'm really curious as to what caused the problem.

	26-03-2003 04:23									#24
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quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash I've never needed to adjust memory allocation... maybe that's part of the problem... I'm slowly converting all of my programs to X... finally picked up Office V.X and GoLive, now I just need Photoshop and I'll be almost 9.2 free (except for Civ II, CtP, and SMAX of course.)

Yes, but what happens when, as has been announced, future OSs won't support OS9 apps? Presumably none of us will upgrade.

quote: I would suppose that you've already tried starting in 9.2, increasing RAM in Civ II and then restarting in X, right?

Yep.

quote: Model probably doesn't have anything to do with it... be sure to let us know when you do get a RAM upgrade... I'm really curious as to what caused the problem.

I'm sure it's RAM. I've run a few experiments - running Civ with other apps running and it slows down even further.

	26-03-2003 07:09									#25
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Yes, but what happens when, as has been announced, future OSs won't support OS9 apps? Presumably none of us will upgrade.

* FlameFlash shudders...

More than likely, you're right... I know I'd never switch to an OS that outdated some of my favorite games and made them unplayable.

What OS version is possibly going to do that?

quote: I'm sure it's RAM. I've run a few experiments - running Civ with other apps running and it slows down even further.

Glad to know that's all it probably is.

	27-03-2003 03:46									#26
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quote: Originally posted by FlameFlash * FlameFlash shudders... More than likely, you're right... I know I'd never switch to an OS that outdated some of my favorite games and made them unplayable. What OS version is possibly going to do that?

Not entirely sure, but from what I can gather, the system that follows Jaguar - called, I think, Pinot - might not have Classic bundled. Apple basically wants to shift everyone to OS10 ASAP. They've already put the pressure on the third-party developers to abandon OS9 and develop for OS10.

	27-03-2003 06:48									#27
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Ah, Panther.

Yes, but they do still provide OS 9 on CD to buy seperately from the Apple Store... it's buried on the site, but I remember stumbling across it recently. Of course, I don't know how long they'll keep it up. But that's why I'm wanting to switch over as much as I can as soon as I can just to make sure prices don't increase once developers know that you have to use the updated software.

	28-03-2003 07:58									#28
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Yeah well, I won't be upgrading beyond what I've got. I have a few apps - apart from Civ - that I use all the time that are OS9.

	28-03-2003 19:49									#29
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* FlameFlash shrugs.

I'll just probably copy my HD contents whenever I get a new comp and then upgrade to Panther or whatever feline jungle animal X happens to be running as by the time I can finally get a new tower.

	28-03-2003 23:49									#30
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Good grief. I haven't even got Jaguar yet and now Apple is coming out with Panther? Where does that OS fall in the 10.x.x numerical system?

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