15-11-2002 00:48									#1
	Lux Invicta's Government Enter the AD-FREE zone

Okay, now it's time to start hammering out how our government will look.

Topics to be discussed:

Offices

Terms

How offices will be acquired

And so on.

	15-11-2002 02:02									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Perm. Offices: City Manager, SMC, Prez, PW, Treasury Because of limited number of people, we have to keep number of offices small. I think equal number of ministers and senators is ideal.
Temp. Offices: Minister of exploration (Maybe PW could do this since there aren't too many workers early)

Terms: I'm Leaning toward 30 turns

Offices should be acquired through majority vote. I think the original DG constitution is a good model (with appropriate modifications due to smaller group size, etc.)

	15-11-2002 02:36									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

My plan:

Administrator:
Plays the game, organizes the work of the rest of the team, etc.

Minister of the Military:
Controls the movement of all units.

Minister of the Interior:
Controls tax sliders, build queues, and works with Minister of the military to control workers.

Minister of Foreign Affairs:
Takes care of all contact with the outside world, including the 'main' PTW forum.

Terms of three weeks.

The rest of the team will comprise the Senate.

	15-11-2002 07:02									#4
	Science and military Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm pretty good with Millitary tactics, but I don't have PTW till another week.
Who else wants to be Millitary commander?

What about science too.. Maybe someone could act as Chief Science Minister (perhaps they could hold another office also, this ones a bit small) They would need to talk to city/millitary ministers about the most urgent technology.

I'm sorry civer dan, I don't knowwhat a PW is.. public works? could you elaborate on what those offices mean?

Like i said to dan before, A City manager guy would be very useful, all the small micromanagement details will be good.. making sure a city never riots and won't be unhappy and have a culture flip.

Maybe we should break down all the needed mini-jobs and decide what ministers contol what mini jobs.
A mini job might be worker movement or Settler expansion(could be millitary or domestic)
Some jobs might come under multiple categories and be controleed by lots of people.

Minijobs:
Foreign affairs:millitary(war) and diplomatic and trade departments
Domestic/Home Office: millitary and city management , works dep.
Workers: (millitary just for wartime) and city dep.
Culture: Works dep, diplomatic?

there are more of course.. but i better get to bed now.
From this the Millitary Minister would be Involved in Foreign affairs, the Home Office as well as War and logistics(moving stuff). Perhaps having responsibiltes in lots of areas will make people enjoy it more.. Though people will maybe change jobs part way through .

	15-11-2002 07:44									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I like Trip's plan. I say if the ministers want to assign deputy ministers to help them out and handle different things, they ought to be able to do that.

	15-11-2002 13:05									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I like Trip's idea, but add a minister of city planning like Admiral PJ suggested. They should take care of the cities (Can't the city govenor just manage citizens moods?) and also plan the settler expansion.

I'm not sure the actual size of the saved game, but if it is going to be large then a requirement for the Administrator/President job should be that the person has a fast enough net connection?

	15-11-2002 22:30									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I think the Minister of the Interior would be able to plan that out (there won't be that much work early on) with the assistance of the Minister of the Military. Even if it does turn out to be too much for one person, it will be a very long time before that's the case. Remember, we don't need a massive beaurocracy or a huge Constitution, we can adapt on the fly.

	16-11-2002 01:16									#8
	Got spare money?

PW=Public works

But I'd like to see workers under the control of one person. I don't see why military minister should be involed with worker movement, other than in a wartime situation, even then it should be limited to building specific infrastructure needed for war (roads, outposts, etc.) and to make sure out workers aren't captured.

	16-11-2002 01:26									#9
	Put an end to popups!

But there's also really no need to have a seperate office just for moving workers... it won't be much of a chore until at least 500 AD, and even then with our industrious workers most of the work will be done.

	16-11-2002 03:14									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yeah, I guess I was looking too far forward.

	18-11-2002 23:31									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Put me in for either science or military. I'm probably stronger at the military side...and diplomacy...only when I need it...so maybe I wouldn't be that great at it...see my trash talking posts hehe

	18-11-2002 23:33									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

OH and I'm good at public works/interior minister as well...okay, dang it, I can do anything, except diplomatic relations...I'm rather Machiovellian there...

	19-11-2002 00:07									#13
	Remove this text

I don't think we should use the Automatic City AI for anything, unless we have such a big civ that they can't do any harm .
Its better micromanaging.. having a team this will be easy and quick (as long as we're not too beuracratic/fussy as a team)
We need to make sure our cities have the maximum amount of laborers set to either money/production/science/food values, probably best to keep each to separate strategies when we can, one city for production biased.

First We ought to try and build up our cities, making lots of food first, to expand, and production to build settlers.
We could have a small cheap army (not too many rubbish units , more swordsmen than warriors etc) which would just defend basically.. and hunt out barbarians/scout for civs and huts. We'd need a minimum amount of money to help with diplomacy .. needed to remain peaceful. We'd always have to keep an eye on our neighbuors .. build up our armies if we see them doing the same.
Maybe we would soon have to beef up our armies, when we get good techs and production going.

Reccenaisance and intelligence gathering are important, don't be scared to spy on enemy cities(need embassies first)

BTW, what does an outpost do?
It needs masonry , so ottomans get it from the word Go.

	19-11-2002 00:10									#14
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

What you say is correct...although I tend to maximize production early on...irrigation doesn't kick in too much, except plains and deserts, until Monarchy, so all of my hills and grasslands get mined...

Outposts are just look-out towers...extra sight/less fog of war...never used them...Fortifications and Radar towers...well, these I have used!

	20-11-2002 01:05									#15
	infrastructure basics Support Apolyton

mining takes a lot of worker time, but I agree its useful , i like to mine Shield bonus grassland, and have some cities squares mined, and some irrigated.
I think we need to put a lot of time into our workers, if we do play an industrious civ, it will be a strong part of our civ, we need all our laborers to work in roads for trade, and lots of mines/irrigation.
We should probably give each city a basic infrastructure focusing on road links etc , but make the capital city and local ones get the most attention for IS(infrastructure) or any other big succesful cities, as we won't have unlimited workers(they're expensive and pretty useless during wars)
Our captured workers wont cost anything and will work as normal workers, so maybe a big war in late ancient times would be good to capture enemy workers.

I've been modding the irrigation on civ3, and it seems better to be able to irrigate hills too, or plains.. but i think the demo game should be unmodded, game balance can be broken with untested modding.

It is useful to build cities near fresh water, aquaducts are a pain to build, and rivers are great.. extra trade, though you need engineering to build bridges.

	20-11-2002 03:15									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

I agree with you wholeheartedly Admiral...balanced mining and irrigation are the way to go, but for me rapid production in the early game is mois importanto! Later on, when I get Monarchy, then I start adding some irrigation.

Everything else you said is right on!:b

	20-11-2002 06:41									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Corruption is our first enemy, so we do need Monarchy or republic early on, and some courthouses.. and we need to build the forbidden palace near our palace as the main one, and build the palace far away from it.. this is a well known trick , meaning if the palace is lost it quickly moves somewhere else for free, and its much more flexible as it can be rebuilt anywhere where its needed (normally once its nearby cities have policestation+courthouse+cathedral and are 'selfsupporting') though this needs a great leader normally.

Back to corruption, Food growth isn't affected by this
which makes far off cities better off making food than production to start with, I do agree fully that mines need to be put on hills and everywhere, sometimes its easy to forget to mine a hill by a big city.
We just need to have a balance.. I like to have a balance in the middle of things, it seems to work best mostly.

Trade money is another thing, this is important I think, vital for us to do research (can't rely on other civs) and to support armies/maybe do a little spying /vital for diplomacy.
Early on even a little more money and research makes a big difference, getting harbors and sea production is good for this(also 2food per coast square is great for building up vital laborers) or rivers/gold/resource tile laboring.
I would say more strongly we should make money from other civs, by trading with them, even giving them techs which we find backwards .. giving techs means we get lots of money and can research the next tech faster, but we need to keep our tech lead still.

IMPORTANT:We may have to resort to stealing techs, perhaps we can ally with someone to be able to get enough money to steal anothers techs(not really cheating.. if one team was communist their spies would be more effective, the democracy making all the money - my secret fait a complit)

P.S. you said mois importanto (sounds like moins - less in french! ) but i think you meant more important.

I like the nick warriorpoet.. sounds like a character from an old Ian M Banks sci fi novel, a soldier who became a poet.

	20-11-2002 06:57									#18
	government term sizes Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Gone a bit off topic there, oh well

About our government,
I think we should change some posts every month, so each month we have a new Head of Millitary and so on. Some Ministries seem more popular but i'm sure we can all comment on moves and issues we're interested in, outside of our offices.

Should we make forum headings for each Ministry too?
I think now apolyton can have private forums in private forums! but we're not in a Dictatorship so we probably don't need private ministry forums too

I would rather try andmake our own systems up, and not use the old Apolyton Demo games things apart from finding out where they went wrong etc.

I nearly posted this in a different forum.. whoops

Last edited by Admiral PJ on 20-11-2002 at 07:05

	20-11-2002 18:41									#19
	Support Apolyton

I wholeheartedly announce my support for AdmiralPJ as Minister of the Interior, and also as senior advisor in Military affairs!:b

I like the idea of email distribution lists for timely communication within ministries. Of course, major policies should be voted on. Here, poll times will need to be short. In an emergency the ministry involved will simply have to be trusted.

By the way, I nominate myself for Defence Minister, and also senior advisor to the Minister of the Interior.

	22-11-2002 01:40									#20
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Are there any objections anyone has to those four departments?

Administrator (organizes everything/everyone)
Minister of the Interior (workers, cities, etc.)
Minister of War (units)
Minister of Foreign Affairs (does all things involving other civs/teams)

Have people any ideas on details for these offices, etc.?

	22-11-2002 03:20									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

What about the plan I posted earlier in another thread (I think it was the first or second thread for our team)?

It has 5 'departments'.

EDIT: Ah - here it is:


1 Chairman. Organizes internal chats, gathers and distributes information, plays the game, starts important threads, keeps an overview of the game. Will handle internal conflicts.

2 Head of Internal Affairs. Plans cities, worker actions and keeps an eye on culture and happiness.

3 Head of External Affairs. Conducts diplomacy with other teams. Gathers information on other nations. May act as a liaison to friendly nations.

4 Head of Military. Moves units and conducts war.

5 Head of Economy. Is responsible for trades, science, and luxuries.

I propose to have a rotation system, with 2 people in each department at any time. Some Heads may have little to do when it is not their time (Head of Military in peacetime, for example). If there are any others, they will form the Senate. Everyone, including the Chairman and the Heads, will have one vote.

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 22-11-2002 at 04:10

	23-11-2002 07:23									#22
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Trip Are there any objections anyone has to those four departments? Administrator (organizes everything/everyone) Minister of the Interior (workers, cities, etc.) Minister of War (units) Minister of Foreign Affairs (does all things involving other civs/teams) Have people any ideas on details for these offices, etc.?

i think we have about 12 ppl in our team, if we can asess out members and allocate them into the department where they are best at, we could have 4 ppl per department working for our civ. That would create 1 head of dept and 3 personal advisor. Well they say, two heads are better than one. In this case, its errr... three more heads telling you your plan may not work or you forgot .

BTW any ideas about getting our team members to get more involved in the game? Ive been checking out other ppl's public post, and many of them are creating a unique system of democratic playing. GoW i think is for example giving each player a city designated to a Lord (the player), and their government is basically group of warlords of estates that come to discuss politics.. We can go with the C3DG style, but with far smaller population, we can make the government more intersting and get more people involved and try a different way..

	24-11-2002 15:08									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yes, I think everyone should at all times be 'in a department'. This will increase involvement! What system will we have to switch departments from time to time? (some kind of election?)

	25-11-2002 05:23									#24
	Tired of ads?

Economy is rolled into one with domestic affairs.

3 Ministries and Chairman. That is how Trip established the government, although it is subject to change.

Even with 3 ministry, We can always break into subgroups. I already have a plan to form a department of Propaganda under the Ministry of Foreign Relations.

Also, I dont want the members bound to a specific department... We have small members, so We lack manpower as it is. We need people actively participating in more than one ministry.

Of course, if you still think We should have 4 ministry + a chairman, then we'll have to let the members decide which is better.

Last edited by Zero on 25-11-2002 at 05:29