16-11-2002 01:49									#1
	Golden Rule of Diplomacy Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

For those who missed this when I posted it (it was burried in the "strategy" thread):

Among the players of the boardgame Diplomacy, there is a something called "The Golden Rule of Diplomacy":

"Do unto others what they would do unto you, just do it first."

Alternate Version:

"Do unto others what they would do unto you, just do it better."

-------------------------------

I trust we can keep this in mind?

	16-11-2002 01:58									#2
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I trust we will, but what if the others do too...

	16-11-2002 16:39									#3
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IMO we should follow the Art of War doctine by Sun Tzu.
Being formless and unpredictable, we will emerge victoriously.


Here is one about spying too:

quote: "There are five kinds of spy: the local spy, the inside spy, the reverse spy, the dead spy and the living spy. Local spies are hired from among the inhabitants of a place. Inside spies are hired from among enemy officers. Reverse spies are hired from enemy spies. Dead spies give false information to the enemy. Living spies come back to make their reports." — Sun Tzu, The Art of War

	16-11-2002 22:44									#4
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Arnelos and his boardgames...

	17-11-2002 07:24									#5
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I'm also a fan of Diplomacy the board game. I highly recommend it.

A few points I'd like for us to stress:

First, in the beginning, I see myself sending messages to the other nations that we meet but in due time I prefer to assign individual members of our team to act as an ambassador to one other team.

Our ambassadors will be cultural liasons, who should appear willing to share all sorts of information to the other team. We not lie about anything they can discover themselves. We should also tell them things we have learned about the world and the other civs...

And that's where the true diplomacy begins. We spread rumors, tell stories, get them to distrust other civs and get them to rely on us as the best and most trustworthy source of information about the world.

We must make ourselves useful, reliable, and trustworthy while carefully pitting one civ against another. We become their best trade partner and their most trusted civ.

In any event, as we discover the human civs, I will be seeking voluteers to serve as the full time ambassador to that nation. Such people will also become our resident "expert" on the team in question.

--Togas

	17-11-2002 07:28									#6
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sounds perfect.

The benefit we have on our team is that it seems we have a cross-section of different playstyles and people on the role-play team and, in addition, our "roleplay" nature should give us the ability to better play at being "two birds of a flock" with each and everyone one of the other civs...

For instance, we get a "warrior"-style player who likes to roleplay to being the ambassador to Glory of War, someone who understands and can empathize with the builders to be our ambassador to them, etc.

	17-11-2002 07:35									#7
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Can I be foreign ambassador for ONLY Glory of War?

I wanna be the one who has to deal with them, lol

	17-11-2002 07:57									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot Can I be foreign ambassador for ONLY Glory of War? I wanna be the one who has to deal with them, lol

While I think this would be enormously amusing, somehow I think we might have people more "empathetic" to their viewpoint than yourself

That said, we ARE the role-play team and, conceivably, any one of us can use our character to role-play however we want in this game

	17-11-2002 08:02									#9
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Uhm....
Arnelos

if you may remember... my C3DG persona is not what I am, and I can truly be anything I want HERE.

I am fully capable of diplomatic relations with any nation. Its all a matter of keeping a stoned face and getting the message across without giving too much information

	17-11-2002 08:04									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos That said, we ARE the role-play team and, conceivably, any one of us can use our character to role-play however we want in this game

I thought I covered that... though this only covers RP and not RL... I'll admit that your single-player Civ3DG persona isn't necessarily your real one or even reflective of your single-player one... mine certainly isn't

So I agree

	17-11-2002 08:04									#11
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And... i think it would truly be a fly on the warmongers nose if they thought they were dealing with a wimpy builder diplomat

	17-11-2002 08:06									#12
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lol

don't know about THAT, but it's an idea worth batting around

	17-11-2002 22:24									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ack, I'm trying to read forums while all this stuff is popping up...
"Earn 24 dollars in part time," "Surf 7 days a week," "Do you want to update ZoneAlarm," "New Updates Available," "Travel the world on Orbitz," "ZoneAlarm has blocked all ports due to a chicken in Arizona," "Windows has terminated your grandma"...
How can I get anything done?

We need wimpy builder diplomats for both the GoW and Legoland, because
1. We need Glory to think we're what we're not
2. We already have a friendship with Legoland we dont want to break by sending in the commandos .

	18-11-2002 10:15									#14
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I want us to send a warrior to deal with Glory of War. Why? I want them to like us. I don't want them to feel we're a weak civ that can be demanded and steamrolled if we don't give in. I want them to see us as a viable temporary partner in any of their conquest escapades.

... However, I also want to see them destroyed first, as they are the only civ who has stated that their mission is to "test out a theory" about conquest civs and they intend to be a conquest civ above all else, no matter if they lose doing it.

I think their idiots for saying so. When dealing with them, I want us to act naive to their stated mission, but we should do everything in our power to see that they do not succeed.

--Togas

	18-11-2002 10:47									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Togas I want us to send a warrior to deal with Glory of War. Why? I want them to like us. I don't want them to feel we're a weak civ that can be demanded and steamrolled if we don't give in. I want them to see us as a viable temporary partner in any of their conquest escapades. ... However, I also want to see them destroyed first, as they are the only civ who has stated that their mission is to "test out a theory" about conquest civs and they intend to be a conquest civ above all else, no matter if they lose doing it. I think their idiots for saying so. When dealing with them, I want us to act naive to their stated mission, but we should do everything in our power to see that they do not succeed. --Togas

Yup, "don't play well with others" is a pretty good label for the civs we want to knock off... Glory of War is at the top of that list. This also makes them LESS DANGEROUS than certain other human teams, however... it might be worth keeping their predictability around just long enough to let us help take out some unpredictability (should the need arise) with teams like Gathering Storm...

Otherwise, I agree. Glory of War has to go.

	18-11-2002 20:56									#16
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I will follow Togas doctrine here.

When dealing with those guys perhaps using an eager approach
could make us seem a bit naive? And we should be cool as ice, if they act aggressively...

	19-11-2002 05:11									#17
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Good ideas Togas

We must let them think we are their friend. This way we can manipulate them into doing everything we want

Truly however, the GRoD(Golden Rule of Diplomacy, I'm suggesting this acronym to cut down on typing strokes necessary) is "Be a filthy lieing backstabbing dirty cheat." (Humans have difficulty figuring out if you are doing this, I don't know why. )

EDIT: By saying "dirty cheat", I do not endorse actual literal cheating.

Last edited by mrmitchell on 19-11-2002 at 05:35

	19-11-2002 07:30									#18
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I'm liking the idea of ambassadors to other civs; I had thought of it myself but couldn't make it work in my mind.

Togas, could you give a little more info on how you think this is going to work?

To me, without formalizing this into a real position that every team recognizes prior to the start of the game, it may be difficult to get another team to view it as anything more than a ploy, and if not, they will certainly want to send one to us. Do these ambassadors communicate with each other and relay that info back to their respecive team.

I suggest that we put it up for a vote among all the teams, get it accepted and expected by them, and (as contacts are made) form four positions [one for each civ; elected by the current leader or voted on?... I don't know] that deal exclusively with one civ each.

	19-11-2002 08:41									#19
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Well if I cant be a GOW ambassador...

could i be a Gathering Storm Ambassador?

just dont send me to the builders, please

	19-11-2002 10:41									#20
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Thud or I could do the builders.

	19-11-2002 15:23									#21
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If you need a naive one, I have been recently declared totally convincing in that role, by an expert.

	19-11-2002 15:52									#22
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT If you need a naive one, I have been recently declared totally convincing in that role, by an expert.

Which is an ironic statement, considering that I may very well be more of an expert at being naive than at pointing it out

	19-11-2002 16:11									#23
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If you are naive, I understand your anglophily, but it must be difficult for you to be fiendish full time

	20-11-2002 01:24									#24
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I'm a Lego fan too, and Iv'e already pointed out my favorite Lego-castles sets to them. (the yellow one with the sissyknights)
Perhaps they like my "naive intentions",
so I can do the ambassador job?

PS: I used to arm Legomen with steel pop-nails, those looked more dangerous than the funny plastic swords.

	20-11-2002 02:11									#25
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well, hell, I think we should have to download a digital image of our current lego sets to get the job... I still have mine

	20-11-2002 02:50									#26
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I think I'll accept the GS-ambassadorship instead.
Those guys seemed to offer me membership and stuff...

I'd love to see your lego-sets ruby.
Post those images in a diplo-thread, or something!

	20-11-2002 06:42									#27
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat I'd love to see your lego-sets ruby. Post those images in a diplo-thread, or something!

really?!

Alas, I'm lacking in how to get an image attached to my Apolyton posts. My application would never even be processed

Anyway, it is not the size of your collection but what you do with it. Perhaps as a jesture of friendship, we could suggest that as their motto.

	20-11-2002 07:39									#28
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I'd really enjoy being an ambassador to any civ (if a position's open) -- in the C3DG, I've a reputation as a more neutral figure, so I could probably work well with a civ who we would be percieved as being hostile toward. Actually, I really have no specific Civ preference -- I just think being an ambassador to any other civ would be lots of fun. (I'm not sure if this is the place to volunteer -- but everyone else seems to be . Sorry to Arny if I'm threadjacking, but he election-jacked me firrsttt ).

-- ada, House Mada

EDIT: Just a restate, for anyone who's missed it in the past. I don't have PTW, but think this job wouldn't need it -- with a very small bit of information posted on the forums, and most of the interactions taking place on the forums, the job wouldn't require looking at the game as much as having a general idea of who's powerful in what and our eventual plans for the other nations.

Last edited by adaMada on 20-11-2002 at 07:49

	20-11-2002 11:35									#29
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quote: Originally posted by adaMada Sorry to Arny if I'm threadjacking, but he election-jacked me firrsttt ).

Totally fair

	20-11-2002 18:16									#30
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat I'm a Lego fan too,

Yeah, I once built a Lego tower that hit the cieling and actually was stable (no joke.)
I've still got some pictures somewhere, maybe if any1 wanted them I could send a few