16-11-2002 02:13									#1
	Do you have any misgivings about attacking/destroying your Real Life civilisation? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This question is directed to the many Americans, English, Zulus, etc who post here. When playing another civ and you come up against your own real life civ as one of your opponents do you avoid attacking them? If you do fight them, do you feel guilty when it comes time to raze Chicago, York, or Swazi to the ground?

I've never been in that situation because due to some Firaxis oversight the civilization that gave the world Kylie Minogue, Crocodile Dundee and the lawn mower isn't in the game (Lawn Mover isn't even in the tech tree in another oversight). But I imagine I'd feel slightly uneasy destroying say the city of Melbourne. (On the other hand, it might be quite fun to raze Brisbane to the ground and enslave their people!)

	16-11-2002 02:17									#2
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I do feel a bit guilty giving the smackdown to Honest Abe

	16-11-2002 02:55									#3
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No problem for me that Elizabeth deserves everything she gets. I usually play the Romans and as history recalls England was once a province of Rome and shall be again Muh ha ha ha !!

	16-11-2002 03:11									#4
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I have absolutely no qualms whatsoever about wiping the Americans off the face of the planet. I've done it many times. I don't feel guilty about destroying any civs that are in my way.

"To create, you must destroy. Smash a glass and cry, too much joy!" - Too Much Joy.

-Arrian

	16-11-2002 04:17									#5
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Not in the least, if you do, you may need to seek help.

	16-11-2002 04:22									#6
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When I first started playing Civ 2 (my first civ experiance), I always tried to leave the Americans alone. Now, I don't care at all who I destroy.

	16-11-2002 04:32									#7
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I'm a builder, and French are generally peaceful neighbours, hence I leave them alone. But when there's a clash, I don't hesitate to conquer them without remorse.

	16-11-2002 04:43									#8
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None whatsoever

	16-11-2002 05:29									#9
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Not at all. It helps that I find Abe especially irksome in the game.

	16-11-2002 09:44									#10
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I do have qualms with wiping out Germany (since I have German heritage). But to let my feelings get in the way of my judgement is a fatal mistake (especially since we all know how Bismarck is).

I also hesitate when I have to wipe out America, China, Japan and Rome (since there's a distinct coolness factor with these), but again, such is a fatal mistake if I let it cloud my judgement.

However, wiping out the English, Aztecs, Zulu, Persians and Babylonians is surprisingly easy, with absolutely no hesitation of this sort.

When I have to beat up the likes of Honest Abe, I figure that its not actually him, just a twisted, corrupt clone of him that needs to be destroyed (such is especially the case for Gandhi in the game).

And, if my own country Australia was in the game, and I were against them, even then I'd have no qualms (so long as I can prevent Newcastle and to a lesser extent Sydney from being razed). Once when I modded the Australians in, I was next to them. Needless to say, I conquered them very quickly, leaving absolutely nothing personal.

Besides, when the AI use Australia in my mod, they are nothing more than a mockery of what I believe Australia should be (and even what it actually is in real life).

	16-11-2002 10:33									#11
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None at all. It IS a game, after all.

I just picture George W. instead of Abe and it's surprisingly easy to put Atlanta to the torch. William Tecumseh Sherman was a great role model.

	16-11-2002 17:07									#12
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America is my nation. If that's not the case at the start of the game, it will be by the end should the situation permit.

Of course the fact that I essentilly never raze means that when I attack America, my goal is not to destroy anything, but rather to take it out of the hands of all those nasty politicians and bring it under my more enlightened rule.

Nathan

	16-11-2002 23:25									#13
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I don't have that problem at all, guess why?

But even if Brazil would be in the game as a civ (hahaha!), I would not have any problems razing them and burning them down.

	17-11-2002 13:57									#14
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I rarely come up against America, but I often kick them six ways from Sunday when I do. The one that I feel weird destroying is Rome. I love the Roman Empire.

Last edited by Mr. President on 17-11-2002 at 14:35

	17-11-2002 14:14									#15
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As Australia isn't in the game, I have no such compunction. I have no problem reducing an enemy to rubble when needed, whether it's with warriors or nuclear weapons.

	17-11-2002 16:34									#16
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Well, my informal poll has gone pretty much the way I should have expected: cold, ruthless practicality the clear winner over sentimentality!

	17-11-2002 22:54									#17
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You can't be sentimental if you want to rule the world...

	17-11-2002 23:07									#18
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I don't have PtW, but I would not be a sentimental nationalist if I had it. The Viking pagans would be sent to Valhall by my mighty armies any time I played another tribe.

	18-11-2002 03:28									#19
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quote: Originally posted by wilbill None at all. It IS a game, after all. I just picture George W. instead of Abe and it's surprisingly easy to put Atlanta to the torch. William Tecumseh Sherman was a great role model.

First of all, Sherman is a wretched role model for anything but civ3 warmonger play, and even then, razing cities causes WW under enlightened governments.

Second, you do realize that W. is a Yankee, right?
They are from Kennebunkport, Maine, not Texas.

He carpetbagged his way to a failed career as an "oilman" (hah!) on his daddy's gold card.

Every time someone calls him a Texan, I shudder.
He's as much a Texan as Hillary Clinton is a New Yorker.


Now, to the original question, I like roleplaying my games as much as the next guy, but if you are having this sort of issue, it might be time to go outside - you know, sunlight, fresh air, birds, trees - until you remember it's just a game.

I mean really - if you have that sort of hang-up, you should either only play your real life civ, or seek help like vmxa1 said.

	18-11-2002 10:04									#20
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I actually get some great satisfaction in burning, say, Portland to the ground. Or Las Vegas. So I don't mind. It's probably even better so I don't have to garrison it like hell and risk the AI coming back and seizing it from me again. And cause I was so mad at Abe for having his MPP dragging me into a war against him that I was glad to burn his cities.

	18-11-2002 12:56									#21
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No

I completely annhilated the Americans once or twice. If they have the misfortune of starting next to me they die. that used to happen all the time when I played with culturally linked starting positions and I played my former favourite civ the Aztecs. But now I play Japan and the Celts.

	18-11-2002 16:32									#22
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No problems here with destroying any civ in my way, but I play America more than any of the other civ's combined so I rarely have to destroy my "countrymen".

	18-11-2002 18:40									#23
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ducki,

I don't think we disagree on anything. Sorry if I mixed my metaphors (or whatever they were). I was just saying that I have fewer qualms launching war against G.W.B's America than against Lincoln's America. Regardless of whether W's from Texas or Maine.

Since the thread is "Do you have any misgivings about attacking/destroying your Real Life civilisation? " I think Sherman's a pretty good role model. I do find him less distasteful than other possibilities - Stalin, Saddam, Pol Pot, Idi Ammin, for example. Didn't mean to refight the Civil War.

It IS a game, after all.

	19-11-2002 00:58									#24
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When it's England, I don't really thinnk about it! Actually, I forget! War in civ3 is a bit harder though, in civ2 they didn't give you a smile, or even call you by name. In civ3, they're nicer. I feel so sad about declaring war on some civs that're nice to me, that I ally with them and keep them safe! I just can't bear seeing them look at me in anger!

	19-11-2002 01:08									#25
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No. America deserves a good beat down.

	19-11-2002 02:41									#26
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I usually play AS my real life civ ...'cept on the old world maps where starting on a tiny island is a very bad thing Then i play as the russians.

	19-11-2002 03:36									#27
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JamesDS:

You need help or better yet a good AI ROP rape. Do me (and yourself) a favor, play a game where Persia is on your continent, make sure they have access to iron and you do not. Then sign a ROP and watch what happens. This will cure you of any compunction of helping out those poor, evil, lying, nasty, SOB's.

	19-11-2002 19:08									#28
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America always seems to be exceptionally weak in the games I play, so I usually throw some techs/resoures at them to try and prop them up. Didn't matter in my current game; the Mongols still wiped them out.

However, were the Americans my neighbors I would have done the wiping out without the slightest twinge of guilt.

	19-11-2002 20:32									#29
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doesn't bother me

	19-11-2002 21:32									#30
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When I encounter Magyar barbarians I try to give them techs and a city or two, but for some unknown and unexplained reason it doesn't work