19-11-2002 20:03									#61
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I've certainly been under the impression that you don't have to pay for bought workers, but I can't recall a specific incidence that proves this (Though it does seem like something that I would have looked into).

	19-11-2002 20:07									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I have noticed multiple times, that Civ3 gets confused on the worker status on the long run. For instance, when basic improvements and the RR sleaze is done, I want to disband/add to cities my native workers and leave only the slaves (automated). It's always a pain to hunt down my native workers, because the Military advisor screen (F3) displays crap. Often, if it shows my native worker in a certain position, I find a slave there and vice versa. I reported the bug in a bug squashing thread (IIRC the 1.21f one), but it did not get addressed.

Do you think it's just a display issue or do you think you're getting charged for slaves? I'd be very upset to find out that all those slaves have been fleecing me.

	19-11-2002 20:16									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Randolph Do you think it's just a display issue or do you think you're getting charged for slaves? I'd be very upset to find out that all those slaves have been fleecing me.

Don't know. At this state of the game I usually have so many units and workers, that I'm lazy to check the upkeep. Would be interesting though. Ah, maybe the confusion has been fixed in PTW. Haven't checked it yet. Not even installed... same at the moment with Civ3, btw.

	19-11-2002 20:46									#64
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I think the game just cannot accept ZERO worker upkeep, and will always charge you for one, slave or not.

I do the same as Sir Ralph does - add all my native workers to cities and leave only slaves for pollution detail. I have managed to get my worker cost down to 1gpt several times, but a search for this mystery worker has always resulted in finding a slave who is apparently being paid.

Randolph, I love your quote. Funny, my girlfriend said something similar the other night, but I think for a different reason ("I hate this game. I suck at this game" she says, while struggling on Regent).

-Arrian

	19-11-2002 21:19									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I have noticed multiple times, that Civ3 gets confused on the worker status on the long run. For instance, when basic improvements and the RR sleaze is done, I want to disband/add to cities my native workers and leave only the slaves (automated). It's always a pain to hunt down my native workers, because the Military advisor screen (F3) displays crap. Often, if it shows my native worker in a certain position, I find a slave there and vice versa. I reported the bug in a bug squashing thread (IIRC the 1.21f one), but it did not get addressed.

Ah, that would probably be what I noticed too... as I recall there were a few native workers out there. I must have made a mistake thinking those were the 3 German workers I got. Oh well, maybe that only adds to receiving a worker from the builders

DeepO

	19-11-2002 21:42									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Randolph, I love your quote. Funny, my girlfriend said something similar the other night, but I think for a different reason ("I hate this game. I suck at this game" she says, while struggling on Regent).

You're one of the "lucky ones".... Well I guess I don't have to compete for computer time .

It's funny to think about, but some of her anti-civ tactics are quite annoying.

	19-11-2002 21:58									#67
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Let me guess...
- start to sing out loud in a terrible voice
- ask you a lot of questions you really should answer
- start talking smoothly, asking when it is time to go to bed
- vacuum the room you're in
- invite some friends in the house, who come nagging you why you're spending time behind the PC
- accidently unplug the PC because she needs it for her hairdryer
- ...

DeepO

	19-11-2002 22:32									#68
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Yes, all of the above; here’s some more
- Demand attention by sitting in lap (making game play impossible)
- Leaning on saying/whining “come on stop, come on, come on!, etc, etc”
- “we need to talk about ___”
- “if you don’t stop something is going to happen to that computer”
- “you have a problem”
- etc, etc, etc

Alva had some good ones

at least I have Mondays when she spends the night at the rescue station (aka “civ night”), last night I played the wonderful “double your pleasure” mod (highly recommended) until I could barely keep my eyes open, knowing that any Civing tonight would be under adverse conditions.

Women

	19-11-2002 23:05									#69
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Mine originally didn't play CivIII much. She liked CivII, played it a bit, but never really all that... seriously, I guess would be my word for it (can you play seriously? If so, I do). With CivIII, she has recently gotten more and more interested in it and now I have to battle for computer time. She played for 5 hours straight on Sunday. Part of me is amused, part of me wants the damn computer back (well, it is her computer).

One possible solution is heading back to my apartment, where I have my computer, and taking my CivIII CD with me. Unfortunately, this often results in my worst marathon sessions and all of the side effects associated with them (3hrs of sleep, late for work, zombie at work, chain smoking at the computer...). The other possible solution is moving in with her and bringing my computer, but that requires serious non-civ-related thought.

So for now I accept the split comp time because I know that when it starts getting late, she will get me to save & quit and actually go to bed, instead of just "meaning to" and staying up until 4am.

-Arrian

	19-11-2002 23:11									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian The other possible solution is moving in with her and bringing my computer.

That way you could play PTW multiplayer via LAN

	19-11-2002 23:19									#71
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I wouldn't try the Arrian Deception on her, though.

	19-11-2002 23:44									#72
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet I wouldn't try the Arrian Deception on her, though.

I always wondered where you got that idea from, now I know

DeepO

	20-11-2002 01:28									#73
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Who was it that named the "Arrian Deception?" Was it Theseus? I don't remember.

The funny thing about that little tactic is that I don't believe I actually thought it up first. IIRC, I got the idea from someone else's post re: reputation, and took it to an extreme. I discovered it worked rather well, articulated that, and *presto* it gets named after me. Heh.

-Arrian

	20-11-2002 03:08									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I have noticed multiple times, that Civ3 gets confused on the worker status on the long run. For instance, when basic improvements and the RR sleaze is done, I want to disband/add to cities my native workers and leave only the slaves (automated). It's always a pain to hunt down my native workers, because the Military advisor screen (F3) displays crap. Often, if it shows my native worker in a certain position, I find a slave there and vice versa. I reported the bug in a bug squashing thread (IIRC the 1.21f one), but it did not get addressed.

Sir Ralph, can you post a PtW sav here with this behaviour present? I think I may have a way of bringing it to someone's attention.

I will look for it too, but I seldom use the MilAdvisor unit spotter and so had not noticed this before.

	20-11-2002 03:09									#75
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I first saw it used by Theseus.

	20-11-2002 03:43									#76
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Sir Ralph, can you post a PtW sav here with this behaviour present? I think I may have a way of bringing it to someone's attention.

No, I didn't play much of PTW yet.

In Civ3 I had posted a save in a patch bug report thread, but I don't recall whether it was 1.17f or 1.21f (more likely the latter, though). I searched for it now, but failed. It's more than half a year ago. I considered it to be a minor bug and didn't spend it further attention. If I see it again, I'll show you. But I rarely play in these days, to be honest I haven't even installed a Civ game at the moment. Will do it as soon as our PBEM starts.

	21-11-2002 03:04									#77
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Is there a problem with posting our civ choice? Everyone else has so I supposed that it was only fair.

	21-11-2002 03:18									#78
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Have they? What are GoW picking?

	21-11-2002 03:20									#79
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We decided on Egypt correct?

My confusion is really because they and Iroquois were tied for first...

and what civz are the remaining teams playing as?

	21-11-2002 03:27									#80
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Egypt, Iroquois; one, two.

Either would be good, but Egypt got one more first choice than Iroquois. Therefore, it would be more pleasing to more people if we take Egypt (if available) IMO. Thus I am happy to settle on them if there are no objections.

Iroquois would be good too, and we may end up with them if another team picks Egypt and we lose the contest.

	21-11-2002 03:39									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Randolph Is there a problem with posting our civ choice? Everyone else has so I supposed that it was only fair.

Not really a problem, but the longer we could keep it hidden from them, the fewer time they have for specific strategies.

One added advantage is that all the discussion gave the idea that we are constantly battering amongst our selves, which is a very good thing (especially as it is far from the thruth). Some more of those smoke shows, and no-one will find it worthy to take on the team with the least coherence

DeepO

	21-11-2002 03:47									#82
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quote: One added advantage is that all the discussion gave the idea that we are constantly battering amongst our selves, which is a very good thing (especially as it is far from the thruth). Some more of those smoke shows, and no-one will find it worthy to take on the team with the least coherence

On the other hand, no one will ally with us either...

But i don't see how this will have any real effect in the game, we should declare our choice in due time, I guess Trip will want this to be settled some time before we start, and it seems fair to me that each team clearly knows what they are up against.

	21-11-2002 03:59									#83
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You've got a point there, but by the time we really need allies we should be one of the biggest anyway.

I agree, though, it is a double edged sword. I have to think on this one.

As to setting the game up: I have yet to see the first announcement of anything being final, there is still a lot of work before we will get a file. We have at least a week time, unless we would get our save earlier and play with turn chats...

DeepO

	21-11-2002 17:11									#84
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I do see the advantages to Keeping it secret, but if other teams are stating there choice (including LI) then it only seems fair... we aren't looking for unfair advantages are we?

Maybe GoW hasn't decided yet, or maybe they're being babies and won't tell (I could see that), that doesn't mean we have to.

Regardless, I'm sorry I posted that we were playing Egypt since it seems some people aren't OK with it. I wouldn't have done it without consulting if I thought that anyone would have a problem with it.

	21-11-2002 17:16									#85
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I'll leave any release of information to others (diplomats?) form now on.

Last edited by Randolph on 21-11-2002 at 18:23

	21-11-2002 17:20									#86
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Well, Randolph: don't you think it interesting? Togas even deduced the 'fact' that we are going to value the scientific trait the most... out of pure coincidence it seems. I would say that is a personal victory for you

But you're right, these kind of information releases should be discussed before getting released, even if there is nothing wrong with the information itself. No big deal here, but in the future it will prolly become more important.

DeepO

	21-11-2002 17:43									#87
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Yea, we kind of confused our competitors, which is good .

Randolph, don't worry, it was only a minor mistake, just avoid to let it happen again. Right, some of the other teams stated their choice (or let's say choice of the day), but except of LI (Ottomans) none of the stated choices seems to be final. The Role players won the right to use Carthage over the Builders and are thinking the 2nd week already, if they should pass this right to the Builders. The Builders, OTOH, are not guaranteed to take Carthage even if they're granted the right. So it looks, the other teams also try to fool us.

Generally, we should keep in mind, that information passed to the "enemies" should be well thought. Imagine, if we get a bad start and start to bitch about it in the public, it's likely, that the other teams immediately try to take advantage of it and hunt us down. Even if we lied and our start was wonderful, this would be very bad for us.

So let's think carefully, before we feed the other teams with informations.

	21-11-2002 18:22									#88
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umm.. point taken

	22-11-2002 22:03									#89
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Hmm... we might need to decide to post our choice soon enough: that new German team that is being accepted will likely pick Egypt as well, with such a name.

Or perhaps they want something different this time, who knows.

DeepO

	22-11-2002 22:15									#90
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I was thinking the same thing, DeepO. I don't want to lose Egypt by waiting to announce our preference. I know we have a solid backup and all, but at the very least we could stake out claim and we could even be in a position to give the German team the Egyptians in exchange for... certain considerations

I'd rather keep Egypt, though.

-Arrian