16-11-2002 13:47									#1
	Senate Budgetary Authority - How Much to Use and How to Use It? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The Senate has been ceded an ENORMOUS power by the NewCon: the ability to make budgetary decisions when the Senate decides it to be worthwhile to do so.

This could take two known forms (or any number of other forms at the Senate's discretion):

1. Variation on the MoE budget method pioneered by Reddawg: Pass a single Budget which details the amount of money (in cash and LPT) is permitted to be spent by each Ministry and how much in additional funds will be left to the budgetary discretion of the President. Ministries could be permitted to share and/or gift funds to each other (as in the past) or they could not be permitted (to give the spending limits set by the Senate more force).

2. Authorization of individual budgetary requests made by Ministries to the Senate on a case-by-case basis. The Senate deciding which cases it wants to hear and which it doesn't (ceding those decisions to the President and/or his appointed economic deputy).

I'm not saying that either is good or bad, that's for the Senate to decide as the product of a discussion. These aren't even the only two options that exist. How much time and effort do you, as the Senators, REALLY intend on devoting to utilizing your budgetary authority. Keep in mind that nothing is requiring you to exercise it (except in certain explicit cases covered by the NewCon) AT ALL, as the President has the authority to make budgetary decisions if you do not.

That said, however, the Senate needs to have a discussion on how deep they want to get into involved in budgetary matters and what means the Senate will use to do so. Will individual senators simply start a senate bill every time they have a budgetary item they'd like to see passed? Will you establish a committee to organize this process and process requests?

There are advantages and disadvantages to each (and to other options).

The main thing that needs to happen at this point is a discussion, by the members of the Senate, which moves toward answering many of these questions and additionallly filling talented and committed people into the roles that may be necessitated by the Senate's decisions in this regard.

Good Luck to you

	16-11-2002 19:00									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I beleive a Senate Appropriations Committee should decide on a budget, based on the budgetary requests of ministers, that would send a finalized 'Reddawg' budget to the Senate for poll approval.

	16-11-2002 22:43									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The Senate should limit it's activities in this and just about every other area to one of oversight. To ensure this we should mimick the RL congressional model. A 'rules' committee that makes certain that very few bills come to a vote.

	16-11-2002 23:45									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I would like to see the prez appoint one person, and the senate come up with two volunteers, and all three of them hack out a budget every turnchat, including science slider rate.

	17-11-2002 08:57									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I was considering this system. All ministers send me the budget request and me or my appointed representative creates a "timeline of spending". If there is plenty of money and no arguement this should suffice. If we come to a point where there is debate I offer to let the senate excise its powers, before deciding on my own, with of course consultation. I know the senate has the power technically, but really unless there is a shortage there is no reason to micromanage. The senate also is welcome to pass "non binding recommendations" such as we need to keep a 200 reserve etc.
Aggie

Last edited by Aggie on 17-11-2002 at 09:04

	17-11-2002 09:23									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'd like to see the Senate step back and let the President do the job. Of course, if the President were negligent, the Senate could take it over -- that was the purpose of granting original power to the Senate -- but the ConCon never intended for the Senate to have some enormously complex budgetary approval system, or for the Senate to just approve everything that comes across it's desk haphazardly. Rather, the power was granted to the Senate as a check on the Presidency, but I believe it makes the most sense for the President to do the day-to-day work – who better to decide the budget then the person running the chat?

-- adaMada

	17-11-2002 13:57									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by adaMada the power was granted to the Senate as a check on the Presidency, but I believe it makes the most sense for the President to do the day-to-day work – who better to decide the budget then the person running the chat?

I agree. A major factor in the inclusion of a veto provision was so that the President and the Mininsters could avoid being "micromanaged" or forced into a corner by the Senate's substantial budget power.

Hopefully, issues of national importance with regards to spending will be dealt with by the Senate and issues of day-to-day spending will be handled by the President and his staff.

--Togas

	17-11-2002 21:02									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

hi ,

we should try to get what ever we can out of research , but we should also think about improving some cities , hurry something here and there , and we should see that we save more the less 25 % of the money to save for later , ....

have a nice day

	17-11-2002 22:13									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The Senate must not take any part of the executive duties (preparing budget, etc) but it must set up an organization to effectively control the Cabinet. In addition it will issue bills on specific issues.

If the veto power was incorporated by fear of micromanagement by the Senate, it should have been said because it would have made it acceptable, which is not the case as it is.

	18-11-2002 15:12									#10
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT The Senate must not take any part of the executive duties (preparing budget, etc) but it must set up an organization to effectively control the Cabinet. In addition it will issue bills on specific issues. If the veto power was incorporated by fear of micromanagement by the Senate, it should have been said because it would have made it acceptable, which is not the case as it is.

hi ,

the court would be fine to control the budget , .....

have a nice day