16-11-2002 23:38									#1
	CD Protection - what ended up happening? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hello all, many apologies if this topic was covered, but I couldn't find it anywhere.

Many moons ago, pre-PTW, we were all surmising that Infogrames would require one CD per installation of CIV III to play.

In other words, those with home LANs would be forced to buy 1 copy of CIV III and 1 copy of PTW per PC.

Now that PTW is out, can anyone confirm or deny this? What's the protection scheme look like?

Thanks!

Steve

	16-11-2002 23:47									#2
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Good question Battists, I went ahead and bought 2 copies of PTW (to go with my 2 copies of Civ3), so I'm really not sure ...

Last edited by Ming on 17-11-2002 at 01:14

	17-11-2002 01:03									#3
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H'bout buying 2 copies since ur supposed to technically..

	17-11-2002 01:07									#4
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Edited by Ming...

This site doesn't support or condone illegal acts when it comes to software misuse...

The next person that wants to talk about how to "beat" the system will be suspended.

Last edited by Ming on 17-11-2002 at 01:13

	17-11-2002 03:13									#5
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This question isn't about "beating" the system.

Diablo had a feature called something like "Intall Spawned Game" or somesuch, so that even if you only owned 1 copy of Diablo, you could still play LAN multiplayer with your wife/gf/bf/brother/kids/friends.

I think the original question seems to be about a previous thread concerning whether PtW/Civ would have this sort of feature or not.

Of course, the Host had to have the CD in the drive, so it's not like it's a hack or something. This was a feature of the software's multiplayer aspect.

	17-11-2002 03:14									#6
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Nevermind, I didn't realize the edit was not by the poster.

Still, I wish PtW had a "Host Spawned MP Game" for LAN.

	17-11-2002 08:41									#7
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sorry ming. I will be more careful next time.

	17-11-2002 13:21									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Ming you need to stop interfering in other people's affairs. This Moderator job has gone to your head. If they want to talk about piracy of a horrible game that should have lawsuits filed on its behalf, let them. Infogrames should be happy I don't get everyone together and start filing class action lawsuits. I'm sure that would really help infogrames since they're already going under and are about to be removed from the Nasdaq.

	17-11-2002 15:03									#9
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quote: If they want to talk about piracy of a horrible game that should have lawsuits filed on its behalf, let them.

not on our forum. they are free to do it in another way

	17-11-2002 18:08									#10
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I think Infogrames is missing an opportunity here. They should offer PtW packs with (x)licenses, I.E. , pay 39.99 for a copy that can be registered to 5 computers, or whatever. Like in the real world. You KNOW college dorm guys would do it!

edited for clarity

	17-11-2002 20:24									#11
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Yeah, I don't want to find out about how to "beat the system". My system behaves poorly enough without installing hacks, etc.

I just want to know, before I buy PTW so my wife and I can play on a home LAN, am I going to need to buy one copy of each, or two copies of each?

	17-11-2002 21:39									#12
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quote: Originally posted by HappySunShine Ming you need to stop interfering in other people's affairs. This Moderator job has gone to your head. If they want to talk about piracy of a horrible game that should have lawsuits filed on its behalf, let them. Infogrames should be happy I don't get everyone together and start filing class action lawsuits. I'm sure that would really help infogrames since they're already going under and are about to be removed from the Nasdaq.

Hes wanting to play a game he likes, otherwise theres no point in wondering if he can play on several computers with the same copy, right? I'm also sure Infogrames fears your legal prowness.


And i'd just get two copys of PtW, since you can play sp or multi with it. And since its just you and your wife i'd really say 1 copy of each would be enough, if not for the cd protection.

	17-11-2002 23:21									#13
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I guess my first post also stepped over the "copywrite line," since I just noticed that it was "Mingified" too ... Even though I don't see how the post infringed on any copywrite laws. Oh well, life goes on.

So Battists, the simplest answer that I can give you is to just buy 2 copies of PTW for your LAN games - That's what I did.

	18-11-2002 00:30									#14
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Battists, the answer to your question is: legally, y es, you must buy two copies. Do you have to? No, you can simply remove the CD after starting one computer's game, and use it to start the other - BUT YOU WILL BE COMMITTING A CRIME.

	18-11-2002 02:11									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I say, get a copy per computer. Not only is that the legal way, but you'll feel much better about yourself for having a conscience and not trying to screw over gaming companies.
How would you like it if you made a piece of software, and half the people using it didn't pay for it?
Apparently MS lost $30 000 000 000 to piracy. And people call MS greedy

	18-11-2002 19:05									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Switch I say, get a copy per computer. Not only is that the legal way, but you'll feel much better about yourself for having a conscience and not trying to screw over gaming companies. How would you like it if you made a piece of software, and half the people using it didn't pay for it? Apparently MS lost $30 000 000 000 to piracy. And people call MS greedy

sorry, but i don't agree to this AT ALL.
maybe, if you sum up the price of all illegal copies of all MS-products, you might get this figure. but microsoft would NEVER had got this powerful and rich without piracy.

let's say you're a student, have no money and don't know much about computers. if it were impossible to copy MSDOS or windows, they would have had to choose another operating system.

that's were microsoft won: they got the rich (mainly companies and adults) to BUY the product and got the poorer to chose their product (they earn just as little if you take a substitute). so everyone has MS and it's even harder NOT to use it for the new companies (they only know MS).

so if MS says, they lost 30 billion through piracy, i'd say that was worth it for them: they're the monopolist now and only some artists, musicians, geeks and nerds use mac and unix-derivates.

	18-11-2002 19:39									#17
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Interesting theory sabre. In any event, I don't condone piracy, but it is quite silly to ask this poster to buy two seperate copies just to play over LAN. He is fully within his fair use rights to make a copy for the Mrs, or to do the disc swap method described earlier.

	18-11-2002 23:37									#18
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Not within your right to make a copy for anyone, not even youself to use on another machine. You are not allowed to use software on more than one machine with one copy unless you have a site lic.

	19-11-2002 01:31									#19
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vxma1: well, actually making copies is not forbidden, for you buy the product, not the CD. however it is forbidden to use it twice. so backups only...

as for different machines: what if you're the only one playing the games, but have two computers. a nice high end desktop and a notebook for travelling. you're never using more than one version at a time and it's always the same person playing the same game. so morally it should be allowed to use the CD twice. but is that legally allowed?

	19-11-2002 01:37									#20
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quote: Originally posted by ChaotikVisions And i'd just get two copys of PtW, since you can play sp or multi with it. And since its just you and your wife i'd really say 1 copy of each would be enough, if not for the cd protection.

Since multiplayer doesn't even work, if he wants to waste his money then he should by 1 copy. But if he wants to be a fool, then he should by 2 copies!

Stick with plain, old Civ3 1.29f. It's much more stable than PtW.

	19-11-2002 01:44									#21
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quote: Originally posted by HappySunShine Ming you need to stop interfering in other people's affairs. This Moderator job has gone to your head. If they want to talk about piracy of a horrible game that should have lawsuits filed on its behalf, let them. Infogrames should be happy I don't get everyone together and start filing class action lawsuits. I'm sure that would really help infogrames since they're already going under and are about to be removed from the Nasdaq.

HSS

You are such a joke.

I'm sure you do scare Infogrames with your impotent threats.

	19-11-2002 03:03									#22
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf vxma1: well, actually making copies is not forbidden, for you buy the product, not the CD. however it is forbidden to use it twice. so backups only... as for different machines: what if you're the only one playing the games, but have two computers. a nice high end desktop and a notebook for travelling. you're never using more than one version at a time and it's always the same person playing the same game. so morally it should be allowed to use the CD twice. but is that legally allowed?

True you were allowed to make a backup. I said were as I am not so sure now with the millenium act if that is still legal.
You are not allowed to install it on two pc's with only one lic. There is a law against that and many compies and individuals have been busted. so the answer is you are not legally allowed to do that. You will probably never be caught, but you have better make sure you have no ex wives or girlfriends that are mad at you. That is how people get caught.

	19-11-2002 03:12									#23
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 ... but you have better make sure you have no ex wives or girlfriends that are mad at you. That is how people get caught.

Actually, if my partner ever decided to "rat me out," he could find better "illegal" activities to report me for than copying a game CD...

	19-11-2002 04:12									#24
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I think some people are confused because their are 2 separate laws at work here. The first is piracy law, which (I believe) most people know states that you may not copy or otherwise use a piece of software in a manner which violates the license. In this particular case, as with most standard licenses, any attempt to install one copy on two separate machine at the same time is piracy.

The second law I was referring to is the 1998 Digital Millenuim Copyright Act (DMCA). This law makes it illegal to circumvent copy protection mechanisms designed to prevent piracy (like anything done to not require CD use to play). The law also makes it illegal to link to any site which engages in this kind of activity. That is why linking to cracking sites is not allowed on here, for anyone who did not know. It's because it violates the DMCA. Whether or not you agree with it or not is up for you to decide, but regardless, it's the law and has to be followed.

I hope this clarifies things regarding this topic.

	19-11-2002 05:03									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich Actually, if my partner ever decided to "rat me out," he could find better "illegal" activities to report me for than copying a game CD...

No doubt anyones could, but you get the picture and I was too lazy to cover all the bases.

	19-11-2002 05:05									#26
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CiverDan, thanks that is what I have been saying the DMAC is not settled law and it is not clear if it will be used to stop even a safety copy, it looks like it could be found to be a no no.

	19-11-2002 05:25									#27
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so if i understand you all correctly, you're officially NOT allowed to make a copy of any kind.

so if you buy a music CD, you have to listen to it from THAT CD, not from tape (for the car), not from mp3 (for on the journey), etc.?

damnit... if they'd write more intelligent law they (RIAA, etc.) wouldn't have so much fuss with the copies. legalizing copies (for your own purpose!) would boost the sales. because the illegal copies are out there anyway (napster and successors), these laws just harm the honest people who actually bought the CD.

	19-11-2002 05:27									#28
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sorry for ranting... it's frustrating. to me, it sounds like if i'm driving just a tad bit to fast and the police takes me out while being overtaken by 100 real speeders.

sometimes law doens't make sence to me, the least of all is that recent greek one

	19-11-2002 06:35									#29
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Funny how everyone seems to be sayin don't screw over infograms, just buy two cd's, when its infograms who's screwed us over with this piece of crap bundel of bugs that they call a game, and that we had to pay for twice.

	19-11-2002 06:52									#30
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You can still make a legal copy under the DMCA, as long as not hacking or cracking or anything of that matter is involved. If you can get past the copy-protection without any sort of "circumvention" you are fine, legally. There are quite a few burners that can burn virtually any type of protection there is.

Anyway, perhaps making a copy to use on another machine is illegal, but it certainly isn't immoral. Licensing laws arent divinely inspired after all.