17-11-2002 03:06									#1
	Manhattan Project as a Small Wonder not working?? Got spare money?

I am playing a mod where I have set the Manhattan Project as a small wonder. I am not the first to build this because I aquired Uranium and Aluminum late in the game. I was shocked when I got a pop up that said we should build the MP, and then noticed on of my cities building an ICBM before the project is even complete... Has anyone else had this problem?

	17-11-2002 03:11									#2
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Screenshot:

Attachment: image1.jpg
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	17-11-2002 04:47									#3
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I've never tried to mod it. Personally, I think the Manhattan Proj should be a great wonder. You can't keep technology in a lockbox. Once it's developed, it leaks out.

	17-11-2002 04:57									#4
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If you made it a small wonder then it means that every civ can build it, so if someone has already built one then all civs can build nukes. You would have to alter the effects of this wonder also to prevent any nations from building nukes until they build there Manhatten Project.
Although I dont know whether that would be possible.

	17-11-2002 04:59									#5
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Hum, I thought the whole idea was that making it a SW meant you had to make your own to get nukes?

	17-11-2002 05:37									#6
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Hum, I thought the whole idea was that making it a SW meant you had to make your own to get nukes?

Yeah, it looks like that's what Unconquered is trying to do, but the effects of the ManProj are hardcoded so that as soon as someone builds it everyone gets nukes. If you change it to a small wonder, the other civs can build it but don't need to. There doesn't seem to be a way around that.

	17-11-2002 06:46									#7
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so what was the point of changing the MP to a small wonder if the effects are the same. seems to me like it must be a mistake ( i hope )

	17-11-2002 06:48									#8
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In one of the last chats Mike B said that he had it working correctly as a Small Wonder (but the screenshot belies that).

	17-11-2002 09:45									#9
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I wanted it to be a selection, not an editor deal anyway. I do not want to go to the editor. Just toogle it like respawn.

	17-11-2002 20:06									#10
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Firaxis must not be thinking, what in the hell is the point of changing the MP to a small wonder if when you build it everyone else can build nukes. I operates just like a Great Wonder in effects, but in name only it is a small wonder. This is the crap I am tired of in the gaming world and this shows that Firaxis is not concerned with attention to detail or playtesting. Obviously some programmer just thinks that he will allow the wonders to be toggled to small wonders and that'll fix everything... No testing, no thinking involved. Get the product out the door and get our money. There is no other logical conclusion. They even changed the flag name in the editor from all civs can build nukes to allows construction of nuclear weapons... This just adds to the deception.

	17-11-2002 20:11									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Unconquered Obviously some programmer just thinks that he will allow the wonders to be toggled to small wonders and that'll fix everything... No testing, no thinking involved

I had a discussion with Mike B and he thought that he had this working properly, as in building it allows only your civ to build nukes. It did work properly at one time.

	17-11-2002 20:24									#12
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That was my understanding also. As I understood, all we had to do was change it to a small wonder and this would take care of everything necessary. If that is the case, that is what I did, and it is not working now. Something happened between testing and going gold I guess, which seems unlikely, more likely is it never worked properly or testing was done with the tester being the first to build MP. Did they do the test from other perspectives (like being the 2nd - Last) to build it. We may never know.

	17-11-2002 21:17									#13
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I just tested it a bunch of ways and I couldn't build an ICBM unless I had the MP even if everyone else did. Although I have to qualify this with the fact that I was using debug and a scenario that started in the Modern age. In a real game it may work different. (And there is the possibility that I screwed something up in my scenario)

Were you using a governor? Maybe the governor code wasn't made aware of the rules change.

EDIT: I can see that you were using the governor, maybe that is were the problem lies as I was doing my build orders by hand.

LATER EDIT: Further testing reveals a couple of more probs that I forwarded to Firaxis.

Last edited by WarpStorm on 18-11-2002 at 00:24

	18-11-2002 03:19									#14
	Got spare money?

Thanks for your efforts, Warpstorm. Manhattan Project as a (working) small wonder is, after all, very high on the wishlist of most modders.

	18-11-2002 03:52									#15
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Just curious, Warpstorm.. what are the other problems

	18-11-2002 10:15									#16
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Was the allow all civs to build nukes checked or unchecked before it was switched to a Small Wonder? I don't know if it would make a difference, but it might.

	18-11-2002 19:19									#17
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I thought the editor check said "Allows production of nukes", leaving it ambiguous if it was for all civs or just the builder.

	18-11-2002 20:37									#18
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"Allows Construction of Nuclear Devices" is what it says (just looked it up). It does not specify "All Civs."

	19-11-2002 01:58									#19
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I had Manhattan Project set as a small wonder, with the "Allows Construction of Nuclear Devices" selected in the Editor. Similar to Unconquered's situation, I am now able to construct missiles while still building Manhattan (I just completed Space Flight in my game).

I do not yet know whether anyone else has built it already.

	20-11-2002 06:53									#20
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I did an espionage mission into the Russian capital and it shows they have build the MP... I guess the code/governor is buggy (like Warpstorm suggested)

	20-11-2002 07:44									#21
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So it is a hit and miss deal? They may be able to make nukes with out the SW if that was enabled?

	20-11-2002 08:06									#22
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They built it first, but somehow the effects carried over to my civ even though I was still building it...

	20-11-2002 21:43									#23
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somebody needs to tell the boys at big F

	23-11-2002 06:19									#24
	Got spare money?

Then there's the question of what should happen if the Manhatten Project is built, and later the city is captured. Would the civ that built it still get nukes or not even though they no longer have the wonder? Or would they have to build it again?

	23-11-2002 22:24									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Randolph somebody needs to tell the boys at big F

I've told them (and sent saves and bixes to show what happens).

	24-11-2002 03:30									#26
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What are the problems you found Warpstorm?

	24-11-2002 03:46									#27
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Some that can't be duplicated with 1.04

	24-11-2002 06:13									#28
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Some that can't be duplicated with 1.04

... and some that CAN, I am sure.

	24-11-2002 09:59									#29
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I understand you are bound by a NDA concerning future patches, but my question more specifically is, was the problems with the MP functioning as a small wonder in PTW 1.04 caused by a bug in the governor code or just a general coding error in 1.04... (see my first post for reference).

	27-11-2002 18:10									#30
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I didn't see a fix for this in the patch 1.14f list. Am I just missing something or do we have to keep waiting?