17-11-2002 07:39									#1
	What the Role Players want for Carthage. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Here is anther Message from Togas, this is the deal they want to make with us for Carthage. So I thougth I would put it to a vote and see if you guys approve of the deal or not. If you say no please say why in the thread. If the deal is turn down then we can redo the parts you guys dont like.

"How about this:

We, the Roleplay team, hereby promise that we will give the Legoland team the civilization of Carthage and we will cooperate with research (each team researching different paths and then trading).

In exchange, Legoland promises to not declare war on or join in any war against the Roleplay Civilization at any time prior to 1000 AD, to give the Roleplay Civilization "Most Favored Nation" trade status (which shall include selling us techs at a lower price than any other civ), and cooperate with research as explained above.

Both teams also pledge to try to maintain good relations throughout the game and to attempt to cooperate for the mutual protection and success of our civilizations.

We also suggest that this agreement be kept in private between our two teams. If the other teams learned of this cooperation, two warmongering teams could join together which would be horribly dangerous for both of us.


If you agree, let me know, and we will officially announce that we have given your team Carthage.

--Togas"

	17-11-2002 08:35									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Agreed, this is an excellent deal
Basically, we're pledging having a good cooperation with the Roleplayers, which is as good for us as for them. The really problematic clauses (forced alliances and free techsgiving) have been removed from the drafts, and what they ask are barely "concessions", but rather rules of good behavior between neighbours
I don't know if the roleplayers are to be trusted at all times, but they seem to have good intentions, and to seek some safety against the war-fest which is preparing. We have everything to gain and nothing to lose by accepting such terms

	17-11-2002 16:51									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Agreed, especially about keeping it quiet....


I would also like to add a clause that if we are neighbours then we discuss expansion early to create a common border with no disputes. Of course this can only happen after we have each others maps.

	17-11-2002 20:52									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

Sounds good, if we can stay ahead in tech will have a big avantage.

	17-11-2002 22:24									#5
	Remove this text

Dividing up research can be a real boon early in the game for getting ahead. I was trying that in a MP game the other night, and it worked quite well. We completely outpaced the AI in no time.

Plus, it will be good to have at least 1 trusted ally in the game. I think this should work out well for both of our teams.

	17-11-2002 23:10									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Do we have a common contact in the RP team?

	17-11-2002 23:19									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yes we do, Since we have 5 votes the deal has passed since we only have 8 people in the team. I will tell Togas we accepted the deal. Remember dont tell anyone about the deal. So it looks like that we will get Carthage after all.

	18-11-2002 13:51									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Who voted no? I'd like to know the reasons why.... not getting at anyone but I think its important if someone is not happy with something that they should post and let us know. We want to make decisions we can all agree on and so noone gets alienated or feels left out.

	18-11-2002 21:33									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I voted Yes, of course, but I have one question. What's gives the Role-Playing team the position to declare we have to agree to this deal, otherwise they're taking Carthage? Who determined the got first dibs on Carthage?

Just wondering.

	19-11-2002 09:01									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well both the roleplayers and us pick Carthage. We did rock paper scissors with judges to see who would get Carthage, and the roleplayers won it. Then they started to change their mind about what civ they wanted, and asked us to make a deal with them for it, since have the team was willing to give it away for free and the other half wanted to make a deal to give it to us.

	21-11-2002 12:32									#11
	Put an end to popups!

The treaty looks good, but we promised that "In exchange, Legoland promises to not declare war on or join in any war against the Roleplay Civilization at any time prior to 1000 AD" while they didn't. I don't like that.

quote: Both teams also pledge to try to maintain good relations throughout the game and to attempt to cooperate for the mutual protection and success of our civilizations.

This is good in the beginning, as a general outline of our intentions. Later we should sign a Mutual Non-Agression Pact with them (for x turns andautomatically extend it) and, if relations are going very well, a MPP.

The negotiations must not stop here!

	21-11-2002 12:42									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Tiberius:
You're right they didn't promise any non agression, so we'll have to be wary of them as much as we're wary of the others, except if our relationship becomes excellent during the game.
But we must understand peace with us is in their best interests : because of their roleplay, they are deemed a "weak" Civ by other teams, and might be attacked pretty early because of this, just like we do.

	21-11-2002 13:17									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yes, I think we definately need to get our amabassadors assigned quickly so we can continue negotiations on an official basis. If anyone wants to be assigned to a specific team, make sure to voice that desire in the "Official Nominations" thread.

	23-11-2002 11:06									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

These terms would be acceptable, so I vote yes. But I think we should first see if they'd be willing to make the "no war before 1000 AD" clause mutual.

	23-11-2002 21:50									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Just so all the new people know, the orginal agreement that the role players wanted was a mmp between the both of us, but alot of people did not like having an mmp so early in the game, so we decided to ask them to take it out and they did.

	24-11-2002 22:24									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

You mean a MPP (mutual protection pact?). I'm glad we didn't take it, but we should have signed a mutual non-aggresion pact, IMHO.