18-11-2002 18:22									#1
	A few tips for would be 'authors'. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ok, This may be offensive to some 'authors' who have posted here, hopefully no more offensive than their appalling abuse of the English language.

Although I would not want to discourage anybody from writing stories based on civ games, as for the most part I enjoy them, however PLEASE take a few of the following points into consideration before undertaking another civ epic.

SPELLING: Write it out in a text editor with a spell checker, there is nothing more frustrating than spelling mistakes, or repeated words.

GRAMMAR: There are rules about this if you don't know what they are, find out. Inappropriate use of punctuation makes a story very difficult to read, the dramatic pause is a much maligned/forgotten tool.

SENTANCE STRUCTURE: if you don't understand this don't try and write anything longer than your name.
Proper sentences and paragraphs break up the story, add pauses, and stop it from turning into a breathless rant (not unlike this thread).

MEANINGLESS DIALOGUE: 'Have a nice day' said the president 'yes you to' said the solider. THIS IS POINTLESS ANOYING FILLER stop it, it has absolutely no use! it turns an interesting piece of writing into a book for 3 year olds, See Spot Run, See Spot etc...

WORD DEFFINITIONS: If you don't know or are unsure about the meaning of a word, look up it or simply don't use it.
There is nothing better at making you look an 'illiterate gimp' as the inappropriate/misuse of words. e.g.

'he was enraptured by the stunning vista ' not technically incorrect but the word Enrapture really means an Ecstasy or to transport with delight it has slightly religious overtones.
It’s a clumsy use; a better example to use would be 'Awed' or 'Taken By'. It would be a good opportunity here for a juxtaposition (look it up) Example:

'On rounding the brow of the hill he was taken by the beauty arrayed before him a stunning vista of mountains, forests and plains. For such life/beauty to exist in such cruel landscape (meaning political, social, ethical) seemed obscene to the solider.'

MEANINGLESS FLOWERY DESCRIPTIONS:
Think about the description you're trying to convey e.g.:
Bullets Rip the air not humm/buzz or any other mundane wanderings.
Explosions Render, Crump, Balloon not fizz or explode the statement 'Explosions exploded around him' is completely redundant!

To illustrate this look at the following,
This is possibly the best use of descriptive language in modern literature.
It is the opening first chapter to 'The Lord Of The Flies' Read on...

The boy with the fair hair lowered himself down the last few feet of rock and began to pick his way toward the lagoon.
Though he had taken off his school sweater and trailed it now from one hand, his grey shirt stuck to him and his
hair was plastered to his forehead. All round him the long scar smashed into the jungle was a bath of heat.
He was clambering heavily among the creepers and broken trunks when a bird, a vision of red and yellow,
flashed upwards with a witchlike cry; and this cry was echoed by another.

This paragraph describes the boy, the surroundings, the mood and the environment in one go. You can almost feel muggy steamy heat of the jungle and the scratchy undergrowth.

Although not everybody can be William Golding, but with a bit of practice your writing will be better for it if you take consideration of the points outlined here.

If anybody has a few ideas that I have missed please fell free to add them here, id like to see your suggestions.

NOTE: I apologise to the authors if they recognise their work in my examples, I have only used these as stand out cases, and it is not a reflection on the quality of the entire 'work'.

Last edited by Lucarse on 18-11-2002 at 18:34

	18-11-2002 21:45									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I agree with most of your points, Lucarse. Especially effective is your sentence under GRAMMAR: There are rules about this if you don't know what they are, find out.

I think if you are ready to criticize people for throwing sentences together without any periods, do at least proof-read your own post. There also are a couple of spelling mistakes, as far as I could tell...

That's about the representation of your thoughts. As for them as such, yes, I do agree with most points.

Especially that one should proofread her/his work. I know some people write their stories in the reply box. But that really is not the way to go. Not only because of the lack of a spell-checker, but mainly because it is almost impossible to write a good piece on one breath. The greatest authors revise their works over and over again. So should we. Do read what you have written before posting it. It helps, because then you can hear the repeating words, which are hard to keep track of when writing.

Another very important thing: do not be afraid to throw stuff away. The useless content is for school essays, not for good stories. Be fair and don't flatter yourself when reading your own story. Treat it as if it was somebody else's in terms of criticism. If a paragraph doesn't sound good, don't think "Oh, but if I throw it away, my story will be shorter than that of [INSERT THE NAME OF THE AUTHOR YOU THINK IS THE BEST ON THESE BOARDS HERE]." Chances are, if you think it’s awkward, the readers won't like it either.

Which brings me to the final point: take pleasure in writing. After all, it's not like you are making any profit off of it. Nobody is forcing you to do that. Writing should be fun. And if a story is fun to write, often times it will be fun to read.

One last remark (yes, yes, I know I said the previous one was the final ) about the use of words. As a non-native speaker, I use the dictionary a lot when writing stories or college essays. But I also know that sometimes the dictionaries describe only the general meaning of words. Some of them (or actually a lot of them) have certain colloquial meanings, as well as connotations imperceptible to an untrained ear, and not mentioned in the dictionaries.

To continue the previous example, the description of the word "enrapture" in the Merriam-Webster dictionary goes like this: to fill with delight. That is all. If I were to look it up in the dictionary then, it would be exactly what I am looking for to describe the awe of the landscape. Nowhere does it mention the religious connotation, or ecstasy. Therefore, even if you look up a word in a dictionary, do be careful when using it.

	18-11-2002 22:04									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I should have put a caveat for the non-english speakers or english as a second language.
To write a story in a language you do not speak as a native is a brave thing indeed.

As for 'Enrapture' its a clumsy usage as i said, infact strike that the whole thing is incorrect 'Enrapture' as i have just checked in the dictionary does indeed mean what you say how ever the word 'enraptured' does not actually exist(should have checked dictionary first).

And as for spelling, find a mistake i dare you...grammar thats another story, nobody's perfect how ever you will find correct sentances(not in this post).

I can't stand bad writing it bugs me,.... i'm such an english teacher...i'm going to go and stick my hand in a blender!.

	18-11-2002 22:23									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Lucarse And as for spelling, find a mistake i dare you...

quote: Originally posted by Lucarse SENTANCE STRUCTURE

	18-11-2002 22:37									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by vovansim .....I do agree with most points. Especially that one should proofread her/his work. I know some people write their stories in the reply box. But that really is not the way to go. Not only because of the lack of a spell-checker, but mainly because it is almost impossible to write a good piece on one breath. The greatest authors revise their works over and over again. So should we. Do read what you have written before posting it. It helps, because then you can hear the repeating words, which are hard to keep track of when writing. Another very important thing: do not be afraid to throw stuff away........

Amen. One of the problems with "Internet Writing" is the immediacy of it all. The temptation to write, quickly proof (if that), and post is just HUGE. Unfortunately, in the days that follow you'll reread it and find all kinds of horrendous problems. Ugh. And even if you fix them, well, most people won't notice 'cause they read the first god-awful version and will never return to the thread, much less reread the edited post.

As a writer, I don't pretend to anything more than adequacy - but even that is only possible because my "Rise of Egypt" stories sit in a file for 2-3 weeks prior to posting (currently there's a 3-story backlog). The nice thing about chronicling a PBEM (Play-by-Email) game is that you have about a week between turns, and the stories can lag much further than that. From a writing perspective, this offers several benefits:
- Posting Discipline is enforced since each story can only be posted after playing a turn.
- It allows time to create several multi-turn, parallel storylines.
- The extended period between initial creation and posting allows for multiple proofing cycles, to include the incorporation of more recent events ("hmmm, now that I know we lost the battle perhaps some foreshadowing should be added to the earlier story").

As a result, there isn't a single posted story that didn't experience significant alterations. I can also attest to the need for spell checking. This had been performed manually (i.e. "that looks OK"), but I recently ran the whole series through MS-Word - and was chagrined to find a host of egregious errors. Ouch.

	18-11-2002 23:29									#6
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Although Im sure youre points are made in the interest of improving the standards of writing here on the civ 3 stories forum Lucarse. Dont you think your being OTT, after all this is a place where first and foremost fans of a PC game write their fan fiction.

I see no reason to drone on about punctuation and spelling to the extent you have. Some of the first time writers here could be put off with such hard nosed critisism and complaining.

Myself I find it hard to have the time to write let alone double check everything, and as long as it makes sense to the main audience then I am happy. In my recent story I made many spelling mistakes and what have you but sorted them as time permitted(Although some may still exist).

If this were a matter of writing for a living then you would probably be right, but as it is your required perfection does not matter. There is a great variation in the standards of the writers here as there is with the topics covered by them, and I for one am very happy to be able to sign on here and read the stories here.

Forgive me Lucarse but I do not recall seeing your name ever giving comment or support to any of the writers here on their threads. You may or perhaps not be aware that the single most important function of any one reading the stories here is to give feedback.

Whilst I dont condemn you for wanting higher standards I cannot condone your ranting, its not helpful to most of the writers. Some would be likely to be put off altogether by such severe critisism, and that is the last thing this forum needs. It is already the minority of stories that get completed, the most frequent deterrant to which is no feedback followed by negative feedback.

Finally Lucarse if you think you are so much better than others at writing then I await with much anticipation your soon to be posted story. I think that the imagination shown by all of the writers here is inspirational and I feel honoured indeed to be allowed to share in it. I suppose I could say Im enraptured.

Thats my two penneth worth, I shall not be responding to any reply you might feel you need to make suffice to say this is my opinion in response to your opinion.

	19-11-2002 00:42									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

A big thumbs down. It would be a crying shame if anyone were to be dissuaded from contributing for fear of the odd typo. We are all but human, after all.

Incidentally there's only one "f" in "definition". See what I mean?

	19-11-2002 01:05									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

I see your points exactly, Chrisius and Lazarus. But I still think that lucarse is making a valid point, although maybe in a little extreme fashion. It doesn't matter if a person has a typo every now and then, it's just that when there is one in every sentence, it kind of gets annoying to read. Then, of course, nobody forces you to read, either. If you don't like the story, don't read it. And if you want professional-quality writing, go buy yourself a novel in the bookstore. Hmmm... Now look what you two have done, I'm starting to contradict myself

	19-11-2002 01:57									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

I have to say I agree with Lucarse on his core points. Vovansim and others make some helpful suggestions about double checking and throwing out bits that don't fit as well. I generally try to force myself to re-read the whole piece before posting and usually with delay of 1-2 days. When you come back to something later you'll be surprised at how what seemed good when written can be crap when read back later.

I would say that if you're writing a story - a piece meant to formally be consumed for entertainment - then that piece should at least be spell checked. It's just so easy to do that there's really no excuse to not do so. IMHO this translates to a certain amount of respect for your audience. You wouldn't go see a movie (even for free) if all the creator did was spool out unedited footage for an hour would you? Reading lots of poorly formatted and spelled text strikes me as being somewhat analogous. It certainly doesn't help retain audience if they are not already predisposed to reading what you have to offer.

Grammar is a separate and more difficult issue to automate and grammar checkers aren't always correct so I'll leave this out of the discussion.

I do take exception to the use of the term 'author' (in single quotes) in this post though. It implies that no one here is a real author which is certainly not true. It also kind of implies that spelling and grammar makes an author. I think these things can break an author, but I'd have to say that many good ideas have been written about here in spite of the technicalities.

	19-11-2002 15:04									#10
	Tired of ads?

Well I think agreeing with good grammar and spelling should be a moot point, finding extra 'f''s in a word is a pedantic pursuit when confronted by a raft of bad grammar and really clumsy use of the syntax of language.

I put these in as anchor points for the rest of the argument that i really wanted to concentrate on, and in which a reasonable question could be made about its objectivity.
I do however have some considerable experience in Creative Writing so I would like to think I know where of I speak.

Quoting some of your posts and replying directly would be again pedantic so I’m going to cover it all with out pointing out the holes in various statements.

I apologise if my post read like I was ranting, I was merely pointing out that writers should take more time with their work. i.e. Find a style and stick to it, don't switch too much from 1st person to 3rd person etc.
Develop a story, know where you are going, and use real emotions in appropriate settings.

E.G. 'the bridge officer chuckled to himself at seaman X's nervousness' all this happening when shells are raining on the bridge?, would this be an appropriate and realistic reaction, maybe forced laughter as he was kaking himself?.

You can even lend a bit (not plagiarise) from other writers in the arena, Tom Clancy being a good example, Technical warboys stuff with a touch of empathy, (only a touch mind).

As for comments on writers in this forum, well I think I’ll keep them to myself, as they would not be very well received. This is not a malicious statement simply an opinion (which are like *******s as everybody has one).

If I was however pressed to point out what I consider was the best example of writing it would be;
'Post Mortem : Two Thousand Years Later' By Dmitry Pleshkov

It of course lacks the romping shoot-em-up pace of other stories here (which in itself is not a bad thing and would not suite this piece anyway) however the language used and the development (building) of the story is excellent, other writers here should take note.

Anyway that’s enough writer bashing for me. Do remember constructive criticism can be a tool to help someone not a punishment.

Last edited by Lucarse on 19-11-2002 at 15:19

	19-11-2002 16:22									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Lucarse, I guess that your mothertongue is english, no ? Try writing something in a similar language (e.g. dutch) without making consecutive errors and without caching up on 25 years of experience in this language. Writing should be fun in the first place, for the reader as well as for the author. So read over the typo's and grammatical errors. Or perhaps, you could learn enough of the other languages to understand what other authors would write in their (probably nearly perect) mothertongue.

	19-11-2002 17:03									#12
	Re: A few tips for would be 'authors'. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Lucarse Ok, This may be offensive to some 'authors' who have posted here, hopefully no more offensive than their appalling abuse of the English language. Although I would not want to discourage anybody from writing stories based on civ games, as for the most part I enjoy them, however PLEASE take a few of the following points into consideration before undertaking another civ epic. SPELLING: Write it out in a text editor with a spell checker, there is nothing more frustrating than spelling mistakes, or repeated words. GRAMMAR: There are rules about this if you don't know what they are, find out. Inappropriate use of punctuation makes a story very difficult to read, the dramatic pause is a much maligned/forgotten tool. SENTANCE STRUCTURE: if you don't understand this don't try and write anything longer than your name. Proper sentences and paragraphs break up the story, add pauses, and stop it from turning into a breathless rant (not unlike this thread). MEANINGLESS DIALOGUE: 'Have a nice day' said the president 'yes you to' said the solider. THIS IS POINTLESS ANOYING FILLER stop it, it has absolutely no use! it turns an interesting piece of writing into a book for 3 year olds, See Spot Run, See Spot etc... WORD DEFFINITIONS: If you don't know or are unsure about the meaning of a word, look up it or simply don't use it. There is nothing better at making you look an 'illiterate gimp' as the inappropriate/misuse of words. e.g. 'he was enraptured by the stunning vista ' not technically incorrect but the word Enrapture really means an Ecstasy or to transport with delight it has slightly religious overtones. It’s a clumsy use; a better example to use would be 'Awed' or 'Taken By'. It would be a good opportunity here for a juxtaposition (look it up) Example: 'On rounding the brow of the hill he was taken by the beauty arrayed before him a stunning vista of mountains, forests and plains. For such life/beauty to exist in such cruel landscape (meaning political, social, ethical) seemed obscene to the solider.' MEANINGLESS FLOWERY DESCRIPTIONS: Think about the description you're trying to convey e.g.: Bullets Rip the air not humm/buzz or any other mundane wanderings. Explosions Render, Crump, Balloon not fizz or explode the statement 'Explosions exploded around him' is completely redundant! To illustrate this look at the following, This is possibly the best use of descriptive language in modern literature. It is the opening first chapter to 'The Lord Of The Flies' Read on... The boy with the fair hair lowered himself down the last few feet of rock and began to pick his way toward the lagoon. Though he had taken off his school sweater and trailed it now from one hand, his grey shirt stuck to him and his hair was plastered to his forehead. All round him the long scar smashed into the jungle was a bath of heat. He was clambering heavily among the creepers and broken trunks when a bird, a vision of red and yellow, flashed upwards with a witchlike cry; and this cry was echoed by another. This paragraph describes the boy, the surroundings, the mood and the environment in one go. You can almost feel muggy steamy heat of the jungle and the scratchy undergrowth. Although not everybody can be William Golding, but with a bit of practice your writing will be better for it if you take consideration of the points outlined here. If anybody has a few ideas that I have missed please fell free to add them here, id like to see your suggestions. NOTE: I apologise to the authors if they recognise their work in my examples, I have only used these as stand out cases, and it is not a reflection on the quality of the entire 'work'.

That has got to be one of the funniest posts I have ever read

	19-11-2002 17:13									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Lucarse I should have put a caveat for the non-english speakers or english as a second language. To write a story in a language you do not speak as a native is a brave thing indeed. As for 'Enrapture' its a clumsy usage as i said, infact strike that the whole thing is incorrect 'Enrapture' as i have just checked in the dictionary does indeed mean what you say how ever the word 'enraptured' does not actually exist(should have checked dictionary first). And as for spelling, find a mistake i dare you...grammar thats another story, nobody's perfect how ever you will find correct sentances(not in this post). I can't stand bad writing it bugs me,.... i'm such an english teacher...i'm going to go and stick my hand in a blender!.

"sentances"

Please, somebody make him stop, I'm getting a hernia

	19-11-2002 17:22									#14
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis Lucarse, I guess that your mothertongue is english, no ?

I see no evidence that English is Lucarse's mother tongue

	19-11-2002 17:23									#15
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis Lucarse, I guess that your mothertongue is english, no ?

I would have thought not.

quote: DEFFINITIONS

One too many Fs to appear in any English language dictionary.

	19-11-2002 17:29									#16
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quote: I do however have some considerable experience in Creative Writing so I would like to think I know where of I speak.

The nineteenth and twentieth words in the sentence would, in themselves, indicate otherwise.

	19-11-2002 17:33									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Lucarse Well I think agreeing with good grammar and spelling should be a moot point, finding extra 'f''s in a word is a pedantic pursuit when confronted by a raft of bad grammar and really clumsy use of the syntax of language. I put these in as anchor points for the rest of the argument that i really wanted to concentrate on, and in which a reasonable question could be made about its objectivity. I do however have some considerable experience in Creative Writing so I would like to think I know where of I speak. Quoting some of your posts and replying directly would be again pedantic so I’m going to cover it all with out pointing out the holes in various statements. I apologise if my post read like I was ranting, I was merely pointing out that writers should take more time with their work. i.e. Find a style and stick to it, don't switch too much from 1st person to 3rd person etc. Develop a story, know where you are going, and use real emotions in appropriate settings. E.G. 'the bridge officer chuckled to himself at seaman X's nervousness' all this happening when shells are raining on the bridge?, would this be an appropriate and realistic reaction, maybe forced laughter as he was kaking himself?. You can even lend a bit (not plagiarise) from other writers in the arena, Tom Clancy being a good example, Technical warboys stuff with a touch of empathy, (only a touch mind). As for comments on writers in this forum, well I think I’ll keep them to myself, as they would not be very well received. This is not a malicious statement simply an opinion (which are like *******s as everybody has one). If I was however pressed to point out what I consider was the best example of writing it would be; 'Post Mortem : Two Thousand Years Later' By Dmitry Pleshkov It of course lacks the romping shoot-em-up pace of other stories here (which in itself is not a bad thing and would not suite this piece anyway) however the language used and the development (building) of the story is excellent, other writers here should take note. Anyway that’s enough writer bashing for me. Do remember constructive criticism can be a tool to help someone not a punishment.

The kiss of death on Pleshkov's little piece

Look I have a tip for would be authors: Don't write like Lucarse

	19-11-2002 17:33									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Speaking of a raft of bad grammar and really clumsy use of the syntax of language, as we were ...

quote: Well I think agreeing with good grammar and spelling should be a moot point, finding extra 'f''s in a word is a pedantic pursuit when confronted by a raft of bad grammar and really clumsy use of the syntax of language.

	19-11-2002 18:46									#19
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Ok this is going to turn into a ***** fest isn't it, I might have known it is impossible to have reasoned argument on these boards.

Finbar :
I fail to see what the problem is with the quote?.

dannubis :
If you read my post properly you would have seen I praised people who attempt to write a piece, which is not in their native language. To summarise I was impressed! sheeesh.

Alexander’s Horse:
That would be praise! Obviously something you are not entirely familiar with.
I thought the piece was rather good. I fail to see why my endorsement would be a kiss of death.

Finbar (again):
My experience : I have a BA Hons in English Literature and an MA in Political Science and Public policy, I have suffered the endless hours of reading 1st year students attempt at literature.
I have had three papers published by Victoria University Press(NZ) and another by The University Of Canberra (Aust), is this enough?.

And all of you, if you’re going to have a go at me pedantic reputation of a single spelling mistake is hardly the basis for an argument.
Take Vovansims lead, he read, he took on board, he disagreed and he presented his case eloquently.

	19-11-2002 20:18									#20
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Reasoned arguments begin with reasonable statements. After publishing several articles, you should know that.

	19-11-2002 20:53									#21
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GOD! its like walking on a hampster wheel with you lot, we go round and round and round.

dannubis please point out the irrational and emotional response i made ...i can't wait..
Its like arguing with play-doh

	19-11-2002 21:23									#22
	Put an end to popups!

This thread is great! Please keep the goods coming!

	19-11-2002 21:36									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Thanks for making my point. End of discussion for me. It indeed is getting tiresome.

	19-11-2002 23:12									#24
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Welcome to the Internet Lucarse. Looks like someone set you up the bomb.

You're entitled to your opinion, but why are you even bothering to read anything here if it makes you so miserrable?

	19-11-2002 23:34									#25
	Suffering from ads?

I was not going to post here again but felt I had to. Lucarse I dont think the abuse you have suffered here is entirely fair but you may have asked for it. There is an old saying about people who live in glass houses!

I take offense at your insistance on how qualified you are etc, we are looking here at the experiences of various people who have something in common. An interest in a PC game and their imagination combined into a story, so why would you need to be qualified.

If you have been teaching then why do you find it a nuisance to read the work of your students, should not a teacher have a vocation and be prepared to teach!

I say to you that it is underhand and cowardly to hide in this thread, if you have something to say about any of the stories here then you should post accordingly. I am sure that any of the writers here will accept fair and constructive criticism.

In my real life I build houses for a living, far from being unintelligent I consider myself to be a professional tradesperson. Why am I telling you this, well to make my next point, you see when I was at school some twenty years ago I did not try very hard. I always knew I would follow in my fathers footsteps and become a builder. Now yourself being the academic type may have never desired to do a pratical job and would no doubt have considered your education a priority to assist your desire to teach. My point is Lucarse that it takes a great many different types of people to maketh the world turn.

I was actually in the top class at school and more than capable at all subjects but really preferred the practical subjects, Art, Pottery, Woodwork etc and found English to be top of my bored stupid list.

Its a shame this thread sank into chaos but you would do well to heed my advice and tell the writers directly on their own threads why you think what you think.

One last point I would like to make is that their are people who struggle with academic things like spelling etc, but more than make up for it in their creativity. I think a little more tolerance is required and we need to remember that this is a place where people spend their free time and share the thoughts of others.

Lucarse I hope you do not find my points offensive, I am merely joining the debate, and I would be interested to hear your thoughts on my post.

	19-11-2002 23:46									#26
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I just want to add that I feel this thread is worthwhile and if offered in the spirit of friendly advice and sensible debate then deserves to be treated with respect by others.

I also hope that you properly understood my previous post yesterday, it was in no way intended to provoke what has followed hence my desire to further contribute.

	20-11-2002 02:15									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Lucarse Ok this is going to turn into a ***** fest isn't it, I might have known it is impossible to have reasoned argument on these boards.

i.e. if people disagree with you its not a "reasoned argument".

quote: Finbar : I fail to see what the problem is with the quote?.

Er, you don't need a fullstop after a question mark

quote: dannubis : If you read my post properly you would have seen I praised people who attempt to write a piece, which is not in their native language. To summarise I was impressed! sheeesh.

Yes, many of them would write better than you in English.

quote: Alexander’s Horse: That would be praise! Obviously something you are not entirely familiar with. I thought the piece was rather good. I fail to see why my endorsement would be a kiss of death.

Hmmm, let's see, because you are a dreadful writer and should not be giving advice to anyone?

quote: Finbar (again): My experience : I have a BA Hons in English Literature and an MA in Political Science and Public policy, I have suffered the endless hours of reading 1st year students attempt at literature. I have had three papers published by Victoria University Press(NZ) and another by The University Of Canberra (Aust), is this enough?.

Jesus - standards are dropping. Have you suffered any head injuries since that time?

quote: And all of you, if you’re going to have a go at me pedantic reputation of a single spelling mistake is hardly the basis for an argument.

"me pedantic reputation"

quote: Take Vovansims lead, he read, he took on board, he disagreed and he presented his case eloquently.

Its a shame he's not here and we have you instead, trying to bully and browbeat people with your loopy, cracked prose

	20-11-2002 02:44									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Its a shame [vovansim]'s not here and we have you instead

But there is nothing else for me to say in this thread, really. I honestly don't see why you people have started bashing each other. It's a fight that rose from nothing. Instead of trying to have an intelligent conversation, you turn it into a river of mud, personal insults flowing in from all directions.

Yes, yes, I hear one of you out there saying "Intelligent conversation? With whom, with him? Impossible!" and putting a :P smiley next to it. But again I say that is really not the way to go!

What is the point of this thread? To point out some of the most common mistakes in a lot of people's stories, so that they could avoid making them. I agree that the sarcasm in this criticism is not appropriate, but neither is yours, my equine friend. To point out the mistakes one makes (meaning the arguments you don't like) it is really not necessary to try to hurt that person personally.

Of course, Lucarse here also went a little over the board with ****** words, and I was really hurt by his comment that one can not have a normal conversation on these boards. But then I looked over the posts, and you know, I only found one person, who tried to present intelligent arguments (no, I am not talking about myself -- I'll refrain from criticising/praising my own arguments, since you must agree I would be a little biased).

The bottom line is this: I am sure nobody in this forum wants to participate in a flame crusade. So, if you want some bashing to receive and to deal out, please head over to some other boards like Blizzard's and you'll find that aplenty there. Like Chrisius said, we come here to have fun.

	20-11-2002 03:27									#29
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My two cents: It's a good idea to write if that's the sort of thing you like to do. If you want to share it with people, good for you - do what you like. But you must be prepared for whatever you get in return, be it furious ranting, honest and insightful criticism, or nothing at all.

As to the rather angry turn this particular thread has taken, I would like to say this much: Get over it and stop bashing on each other. Or, failing that, keep it coming since it's so incredibly hilarious.

Ex.:

quote: I agree that the sarcasm in this criticism is not appropriate, but neither is yours, my equine friend.

LOL !!!

	20-11-2002 03:42									#30
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btw lucarse, wat was the last civ 3 story you've written on these boards? I'd love to read it