18-11-2002 20:35									#1
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How should we treat the other nations as in should we be isolationist to some or freindly or other such things?

	18-11-2002 21:22									#2
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We seem to already have excellent relations with the RP team.

As for the others.... we will have to wait and see although i suggest we trust noone!

	19-11-2002 03:33									#3
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We should be quite open trade wise since, for example if we are selling Glory of War some luxuries they will loose the luxuries if they declare war on us, and thier citizens won't be happy.

We sould only trade strategic resorces with the role players, they are probably the only other honorable team.

	19-11-2002 12:36									#4
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I agree with Odin. I also say we should trade our luxuries agressively (even if it's a real bargain for other teams), to make the others :
- dependent on us to some extent
- less willing to attack us for the sake of a luxury.

	19-11-2002 12:43									#5
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Definately. If we can make the benefits of not attacking us outweigh the costs of attacking us, we'll be sitting pretty. Luxury trading is a good way to keep a subtle noose on other teams. Though, we need to hope that we start near a good amount of luxuries to control!

	21-11-2002 04:49									#6
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Don't forget other Civs will believe we're weak because we're builders. We have to keep a good military to counterattack them if they attack us.
The bloodthirsty teams will believe a war with us will bring almost no disadvantage, because of our reputation of weakness. We have to prove them they're wrong. Nothing better than conquering 2 or 3 of their barbarian cities to punish them from their raids

I've been hinted some Civs have already views on us, because of our building agenda, so I assume our all-rounded Numidian Merc will be our greatest asset to disappoint any frigging Civ which attacks us.
I still think a cunning diplomacy will help to maybe eventually rout the bastards who attack us.

	21-11-2002 05:26									#7
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One advantage we do have is that if any of the war-mongering civs attack us, it shouldn't be too hard to convince the other warmongering civs to turn around and attack them. Nobody is going to want to see any of the war-makers grow too strong, so it probably won't take much to trigger massive multi-sided assaults.

	21-11-2002 14:15									#8
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Of course on the other hand, the warmongering factions may well decide to chop our Empire up amongst themselves... we are going to have a small early military advantage with the NM, I suggest we make use of it to ensure our survival into the second age!

	21-11-2002 22:37									#9
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Definately. We'll be less tempting target because of the Mercs. Waging war against us early on will be much more costly then against one of the other teams. The warmongers will want the max returns for their military investment, and if just taking a single one of our cities costs them half or more of their army, they won't want to do it. Now, the RP'ers on the otehr hand, they might have some problems...

	21-11-2002 22:52									#10
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I think if we're close to the PRs we should help protect them if they are the only ones we can be friends with we should keep them around we protect them they protect us type thing.

	22-11-2002 04:45									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Nimitz I think if we're close to the PRs we should help protect them if they are the only ones we can be friends with we should keep them around we protect them they protect us type thing.

Symbiosis! that wlill work

	22-11-2002 12:23									#12
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We should actively search for another ally, too. We don't know for sure how close/far or how strong/weak the Rp team is going to be.

	22-11-2002 18:41									#13
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...Nor how trustworthy
However, we must be aware we can't expect another team to enter a longlasting good relationship with us, except if they have a longlasting war against another team.
Goodwill towards us will be a strategical asset as long as the rival teams need it, and they'll betray us as sonn as they don't need peace with us anymore.

	22-11-2002 22:24									#14
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Early in the game, the other civs (including us) will side with the winner in any confict.

Since we do not plan on being the instigator in any early war, we will be attacked. If we have a good defense and counter-stike, other civs will side with us (the winners).

On the other hand if we show weakness, the other civs will quickly side with the agressor.

	22-11-2002 22:42									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor ...Nor how trustworthy

I had been thinking about this as well. Since the core purpose of their team is roleplaying, they could easily role-play their way into stabbing us in the back. We can deal with them, but we should always be wary of them...

	22-11-2002 23:36									#16
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Trust no one

	23-11-2002 15:44									#17
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Did you see the member list for the Gathering Storm team ?

alexman
alva848
antoniomilla
Arrian
asleepathewheel
Conqueror
DeepO
Dominae
FrustratedPoet
gooberboob
JTFreak
Konquest02
Meshelic mail
nbarclay mail
notyoueither
OPD
Randolph
Sir Ralph
Soren Johnson Firaxis
Theseus
Velociryx
zeit

Soren Johnson, Firaxis ?
At least half of them are deity players (Arrian, Dominae, Theseus, notyoueither, Sir Ralph, Velocyrix, etc). They have excellent posts in the strategy forum. Only Aeson is missing

Jesus Christ! I just hope we won't start near them.

Edited: Bah, deity, not emperor. Deity players.

Last edited by Tiberius on 27-11-2002 at 22:39

	27-11-2002 12:46									#18
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Tibi, stop trembling!

All those guys have proven so far is that they can effectively route the AI. That makes me respect them in the SP, but that's just about it. They have almost no experience dealing with human opponents (with the exception of nye and Soren, I believe).

Believe me, they can't think up anything miraculous we would not be able to handle. Besides, most of what they can come up with has already been made public in their numerous (excellent) posts. That is OUR advantage. We know how they tend to think and we know what they are likely to do. OTOH, they know very little about how we are going to play the game. People calling themselves "builders" are often misunderstood.

Much more than a "builder", I consider myself a non-agressive player. That says nothing about how capable I (and anyone else in this team) am able to conduct military campaigns. Warmongering is so effective in the SP, because the AI is not able to effectively coordinate its troops, often doing things that are utterly silly for any decent human being.

Should they wish to wage war, I say: let's have it their way. It's very likely, they will be surprised.

But seriously, I am convinced that the starting position will be what will more or less forge everyone's destiny. There are so many good players in all the PtW demogame teams that I would be surprised to see a team developing a significantly prevailing strategy.

EDIT: replaced shivering with trembling... forgot that one shivers from cold, but trembles from fear...

Last edited by vondrack on 27-11-2002 at 16:49

	27-11-2002 22:36									#19
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Thanks Radek, I feel fearless and daring already

Seriously though, I'm not shiver...ahh... trembling, just wanted to make a point that the GS team has excellent players, who possess outstanding understanding of the game's mechanism (see Velociryx' or Alexman's posts). I don't fear them... too much.
I know that not only underestimating your enemies is a big mistake, but also overestimating them.

This being said, we are here to win. (but maybe not by force )

I wanted to say something else, actually: I've seen an interesting thread where the warmongerers (edited: The Glory of War team) made it public that, at request, they are willing to act as mercenaries, hired by one team against another one. Good to know that. Maybe at some point we will use them (however I'm not saying that we should trust them, not at all; only use them.. and maybe blame somebody else :twistedevil: ).

	27-11-2002 22:55									#20
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Playing against human opponents is what worries me. War against the AI is very predictable. The AI offensive strategy always sucks and their defense is very predicable. With CIV, I have no experience against human opponents.

It's good to know that we have several players with the experience that I lack. I will listen and learn.

On the other hand, I am no fool. In the beginning, I will vote on the side of a strong defense and extreme caution.

	27-11-2002 23:02									#21
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quote: Originally posted by lmtoops On the other hand, I am no fool. In the beginning, I will vote on the side of a strong defense and extreme caution.

This is perhaps what is common to most if not all of us here at the Legoland team. We focus on defensive, rather than offensive strategy. I personally think that many SP strategies will be hardly usable/useful in the MP, especially in the demogame, where there are so many eyes watching and so many people ready to point out an obvious mistake that one can trash his game with if playing alone.