20-11-2002 00:55									#1
	Research Speed in MOO ]|[ Suffering from ads?

I hope its not to fast like in other games (civ3). I would really like to spend my time with one tech unit and not have it obselete within 2 turns.

I hope they have a slider to change the research speed setting. I cant stand fast research it becomes nothing but a climb the tree first then build game. =(

Bring on Moo3.

	20-11-2002 01:47									#2
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I know what you mean. I like to have a nice progression through each 'era' of the tech tree. The only thing I don't like with slower tech discovery is the limitations in variety of units.

	20-11-2002 04:52									#3
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I'm wondering if the research tree will be a fixed one or will it be dynamic, something that'd change (at least a little) with ever new game. I mean, once you played orion2 for a dozen or so times, you didnt even have to think about what course in research to take, the best path was in your head, like second nature. I've heard something about a dynamic research tree in moo3, is that true and if so, how would it work?

	20-11-2002 05:47									#4
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i imagine that a dynamic tree would have a tech, call it fusion engines require tech fission engines one time, and something similar a different time, like super strength metal another time.

I would try and have a system of similar techs grouped together that could be mixed up to give a different tech order for each game. although you would still end up needing to research the same main techs and just get to those by researching the prereqs, no matter what they are.

	20-11-2002 07:06									#5
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If I remember right, the tech system is like Moo1.

In other words the tech tree is randomly created for each player, human and computer, at the beginning of the game.

	20-11-2002 14:31									#6
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It was awhile since i last time played moo1 but i from what i remember, that game too had a very fixed tech tree. Only difference was that you could allocate your research points on several areas at once, instead of making just one big push on one area at the time. (not that it makes a real difference)

Perhaps my memory is failing me though. In this case, i'd be very hopeful that's the truth. random creation of a tech tree...sounds ok to me. well, anyway, i'm off to the official site, maybe i can dig out something. (doubtful, i know, but still...)

	20-11-2002 20:46									#7
	Re: Research Speed in MOO ]|[ Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Vipermmx I hope its not to fast like in other games (civ3). I would really like to spend my time with one tech unit and not have it obselete within 2 turns. I hope they have a slider to change the research speed setting. I cant stand fast research it becomes nothing but a climb the tree first then build game. =( Bring on Moo3.

As a fun of both MOO and civ series i must contradict on this one. Only the first civ units become obsolete fast and that's because there are little things to do and time flyes. Than again you may not have the last patches or play at max difficulty. I think that the problem civ faces is that late sciences are never researched because you win the game much earlier. I have to play at max difficulty only to keep the fight on until the last tech screen.
Back to MOO, the tech tree was very good in MOO2 but some techs were also never researched. I'd rather have a random tree but then could you trade around tech?

	21-11-2002 07:33									#8
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I hope it's "dynamic" (as you guys call it) and not linear. I don't think you should be able to have never researched armoUr in MOO2 then hop in with the best kind. It should be progressive, with each advancement in armoUr improiving on the last. That way, you could steal "metallurgy" from one guy and "alloys" from another, and make a better armoUr than either on their own.

Y'know what I mean?

	22-11-2002 01:47									#9
	Support Apolyton

I too was troubled about obsoletion in games like Civ, and indeed in MOO2, as i would hardly bother with combat until i had researched the best stuff and only then would i knock out units, as diverting energy into making a military that would be obsolete in a short time seemed a waste.
On the other hand, being stuck with low tech for a long time is frustrating also. I think the key is some kind of balance between the two, and from what i hear MOO3 will deliver with the lack of the "you will get super-killy tech in X turns" statement in the research area, which i believe is a great idea Then you will be encouraged to divert energy into making such units as you can never be sure of when that tech is coming (and also with the huge galaxies some cheap things would be handy for discouraging pirates and the like i guess)

	22-11-2002 03:25									#10
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I think it would be facinating with a tech system taking into concideration the fact that we can make use of techs we don't fully understand. For example ... all the ramafications of nuclear power wheren't fully understood when powerplants and arnaments (yes, the bomb) where being developed and even put into use. During the 19th sentury people didn't have all that mutch theoretical knowlege on how steam engines worked still they where being developed by enginers ...
It would be nice if theoretically lightwight practices and inventions coud result in nasty surprises or yeld entierly new fields of research ...

well ... yeah ... I know I'm only daydreaming ... still ...

	22-11-2002 03:31									#11
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I seem to remember that in some block of info released that if you managed to acquire advanced tech from another species (trade, steal, conquor, whatever your method) that it may not always work properly or to as well a standard as if u had researched it yourself, due to your scientists not fully understanding such an advanced piece of kit.

	22-11-2002 03:34									#12
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Sweet !
It was oh-so-frustrating in moo and moo2 when rival emipers stole techs and geared up their defence installations in one turn ... hmm ... frome one thing to another ... I wonder if crews need breaking in after ships have been refitted with new arnaments ...

	22-11-2002 03:37									#13
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Seems your dream is answered It does make a lot of sense i agree! Im just trying to think of where i read it, possibly on the Orion Guardian, so you could try looking through the info there at http://www.moo3.at/

	22-11-2002 06:13									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by el duderino It was awhile since i last time played moo1 but i from what i remember, that game too had a very fixed tech tree. Only difference was that you could allocate your research points on several areas at once, instead of making just one big push on one area at the time. (not that it makes a real difference) Perhaps my memory is failing me though. In this case, i'd be very hopeful that's the truth. random creation of a tech tree...sounds ok to me. well, anyway, i'm off to the official site, maybe i can dig out something. (doubtful, i know, but still...)

No, the tree was not fixed. In one game you would get, say, factories 1, in the next you wouldn't get factories until factories 3 was available.

But the allocation part is correct.

ACK!

	22-11-2002 06:38									#15
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You are sort of correct about the tree being fixed. It was fixed, but you only got a subset in each game and that was variable. You could get nailed with things like no toxic or radiated tech or no missiles,

	22-11-2002 23:35									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Well, one of the differences in MOO3 is that you'll need at least SOME ships throughout the game to combat piracy, and (presumably) keep ships from other empires from just wandering into your systems and plopping down their own colonies.

Granted, that can be solved mostly with System ships and Orbitals, but you'd want at least a few Starships, to cover colonies in new systems until they get some system-level defenses established.