20-11-2002 17:20									#1
	How do I have a splendid little war? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Grenada. Panama. The Falklands. Wars undertaken with minimal risk, for minimal military gains, but which garnered huge domestic advatages for their leaders. That's what I need.

Here's the deal. As the Indians, I've just gotten my War Elephants. That means its the Middle Ages -- my chief Wonder-building period -- and I'd love to start a Golden Age to help me get all my favorite wonders built. The thing is, I don't want to get bogged down in a protracted war; I just want to hit a couple of cities, declare a quick peace, and get back to building. But the AI is a more reluctant negotiator now than in Civ2 (where the loss of a single city would generally bring him to the table). So: any advice on how to do this? Does it matter, for example, what kind of civ (traits, attitude, strength, etc.) I hit? TIA.

	20-11-2002 23:55									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

Good luck, the AI will not come to the peace table on its own any more. You can take as many cities as you want and they often will not even open talks. The best way is to take a city and put troops on the door steps and see if they will make a deal.

	21-11-2002 00:01									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

This is not entirely true. First, build a military larger than the chosen AI victim. Then take two cities. Finally crush all of the units he sends against you for about 5 turns. Now sue for peace. This has always worked for me, but you will have to ask for peace, the AI only comes to the table when he's ready to roll over. That takes too long, so follow my advice, steel and then hold your position for a while. This will take about 10 turns. That's the new definition of short

	21-11-2002 03:25									#4
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I've had the AI come begging for peace lately.

Usually I'm not ready for it. If my wartime goals were complete, I'd have sued for peace already.

Usually this happens on the longer wars, so I assume he's either out of units and can't switch production without losing shields, OR, War Weariness is biting him.

Either way, the AI will sue for peace, but not as readily as before.



Personally, I have goals when I go to war. If I have not achieved them, and I can still "afford" to war, I press on. Even if that means spending 4 or 5 turns waiting for reinforcements, or healing.

It's nice to hear the diplomacy-phone ring, because I know I've got him beaten, but if I haven't reached my goals, I don't even pick up.
"Sorry, I can't come to the diplo-phone right now. I'm busy liberating the world from the likes of you. Leave your number and the codes to your bank account and I'll return your call as soon as I've sacked your capital."

	21-11-2002 06:34									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

I've also wanted to be able to have small wars. Most times, I just want to take a single city because of it's strategical value, and end up getting drawn into a world war.

However, the AI seems to be very erratic. Even when they are outnumbered by at least 3 to 1, they refuse to negotiate for a treaty. And in the rare cases they do, they demand exorbitant amounts of money.

Upon seeing their offer, I usually begin a Sherman's March across their civilization.

	21-11-2002 08:53									#6
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quote: Originally posted by WarriorPoet This is not entirely true. First, build a military larger than the chosen AI victim. Then take two cities. Finally crush all of the units he sends against you for about 5 turns. Now sue for peace. This has always worked for me, but you will have to ask for peace, the AI only comes to the table when he's ready to roll over. That takes too long, so follow my advice, steel and then hold your position for a while. This will take about 10 turns. That's the new definition of short

I have not seen much of that. I have taken many cities and whacked all that was sent and they never made a peep. I could ask for peace after awhile, but often they do not acknowledge me after taking cities. Std maps no mods Mon/Emp PTW. actually this has been going on since 129f. sometimes they are so beaten down that they have less than 10 units total and still do not seek peace.

	21-11-2002 09:50									#7
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quote: Originally posted by ducki "Sorry, I can't come to the diplo-phone right now. I'm busy liberating the world from the likes of you. Leave your number and the codes to your bank account and I'll return your call as soon as I've sacked your capital."

i LOVE IT!!!!

	21-11-2002 10:56									#8
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Thanks for the info; it generally confirms my fears . As it happens, shortly after I posted I got my splendid little war: the Persians marched 3 weak units halfway across the world and attacked me for no reason. Unfortunately, my victorious war elephants did not trigger a golden age (I thought that was a certainty; was it because I'd already had one GA?). anyway, thanks again.

	21-11-2002 10:59									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Thanks for the info; it generally confirms my fears . As it happens, shortly after I posted I got my splendid little war: the Persians marched 3 weak units halfway across the world and attacked me for no reason. Unfortunately, my victorious war elephants did not trigger a golden age (I thought that was a certainty; was it because I'd already had one GA?). anyway, thanks again.

yeah you can only have one golden age. A bummer I know. I feel like you should be able to get one from wonders and one from UU's. I would like that a lot.

lateralis

	21-11-2002 11:59									#10
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One game I played, I was at war with the Russians, and had just started my late industrial GA (as Germany, using my Panzers).

Even though I had driven them completely off the continent, reducing them to a few island cities with no more than 4 riflemen in their entire army, I try suing for peace, but they won't even respond. Of course, this was a very annoying thing since I was a republic, the war had been going on for ages, and war weariness was tearing my empire apart. Most of the GA was wasted on a 40% luxury rate that couldn't quite quell all the war weariness.

Unfortunately, I ended up having to go into anarchy and then pick Communism, setting my plans for victory back 7 turns (fortunately, the GA was over by then).

Since then, I've always withheld the use of a civ's UU to start a GA until I am certain they are ready to bring peace to the table. Once I can actually get a response, the GA then begins, I sue for peace, and brace myself for some heavy building.

	21-11-2002 15:30									#11
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quote: Originally posted by lateralis yeah you can only have one golden age. A bummer I know. I feel like you should be able to get one from wonders and one from UU's. I would like that a lot. lateralis

I could swear I got 2 GA's in my last game, one for a UU victory and one for a wonder. Maybe I was dreaming...

	21-11-2002 18:23									#12
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Generally the AI seems more willing to talk when your troops are standing close to his cities. Having kicked him in the face for some turns also helps alot.

	21-11-2002 21:19									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly I could swear I got 2 GA's in my last game, one for a UU victory and one for a wonder. Maybe I was dreaming...

Those are good dreams, but definitely dreams.

	22-11-2002 00:12									#14
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When the game first came out with no patches (civ3) I had two GA's. It never happended again. It is not suppose to be able to happen. I am not sure if that was the case before patches or not.

	22-11-2002 01:30									#15
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Back on topic. Fast wars.

It could be done. The key point it is to have a good reputation (no broken treaties) and inflict damage. As long as you killed some units (depend on difficulty level) AI will come to peace terms.

If your goal is to trigger GA, just put your UU in whatever you have land near weak distant AI (not in its territory) and declare a war. As long as you get your first kill extract whatever left and enjoy benefits of GA. You do not have any units in hostile territory, and AI does not do massive landings (1-3 units landed easy to kill), i.e. no source of warweariness. To help the matter you may enlist other AI's to fight. If you already at war, it is much cheaper to get allies.

Sue for peace after 20 turns and cancelation of alliance. Simply be at formal war but, do not fight.

-------
As far as I know there is no way to be at war less then 4 turns. AI will not talk no matter what (All other are allied against it and you are hittiing him hardly). After that if you killed more his units than it did yours you may sign peace. It could be that quality of units are taken into account.
Therefore, another scenario will be like this. Attack your neighbour get some kills and cities (do not exhaust your offensive HP) and dig-in in good positions mountains, hills, rivers (preferebly roaded) with fast movers/bombard covered by defenders. Wait 4 turns, kiling/wounding as many of AI units as possible with little risk of losing own units (better let a wounded AI unit retreat than risk exposing your unit). In 4-5 turns AI will talk unless it breaks your lines. Do not sign alliances if you plan to sue for peace in 4 - 5 turns. A variaton of this is to entrench in ROP partner territory that separate you from your enemy (your units will have ability to move freely and heal without endangering your cities and workers).

	22-11-2002 02:11									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Firefly,

My suggestion would be a targetted strike against the weakest AI you can find. The plan:

Land a force of your WE's next to the city or cities controlling a luxury resource. Bring along 1-2 pikemen or musketmen (whichever you have) and maybe a settler or two if you're concerned about possible flipping.

Take the area, either building a new city or two with settlers or simply capturing their cities and pacifying them. Then muster as many WE's as you can and do as much damage as you can (cautiously, though, try to keep your casualties low) while trying to contact them every turn.

Initially, no matter how badly you hurt them, the AI will refuse to speak to you for about 5 turns. After that, the more damage you've done, the more likely they will talk peace and cough up money/tech/etc.

-Arrian

	22-11-2002 02:33									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

I have never seen an AI civ accept an envoy during turns 1 - 4 of the war. I always need to get at least 5 turns in.

Purely anecdotal, but I've come to believe that a particular AI civ is much less willingly to talk peace if the current hostilities represent just one instance of an ongoing pattern -- in other words, the third or fourth time I beat up Caesar, he will be far less willing to talk peace than the first time I pay a visit.

If a short war is desired, it's nice to find an enemy that's not a "traditional enemy" who might hold a grudge (against all seeming "reason").

Catt