21-11-2002 16:39									#1
	Are Destroyers almost useless? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Are Destroyers useless?


Ive been trying to figure out ways to make Destroyers more useful... They come so close to Battleships that they seem to be outdated almost instantly. Are they just there to be a lower shield-cost Battleship? Or are there any decent strategies to use them for?

	21-11-2002 16:43									#2
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They can be used as/for:
-cheap escorts
-sea hunters (for sole transports)
-disposable raw materials for far-away bases
-increasing the sea power

	21-11-2002 17:18									#3
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I use them as follows :
A cheap way of increasing Naval Presence (sight)
SubHunters to keep battleships safe (higher movement rate).

I usually have them darting about looking for lone easy pickings or for large enemy formations/subs.
They find em, i kill em. blubb,blubb,blubb.

	22-11-2002 00:04									#4
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The price is what makes them useful.

	22-11-2002 00:18									#5
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They're great if you have a tech lead. There's no point in building expensive battleships if your opponents are only going to be using Ironclads for the near future (Even when the computer catches up it generally takes some time before they get they’re army/navy up to snuff). You can quickly create a real sea presence, at a reasonable price. I tend to build allot more of these than battleships. Since they’re no railroads in the sea you can’t have concentrated naval presence everywhere, so it’s nice to have cheap ships around for quick response.

	22-11-2002 00:26									#6
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Destroyers cannot see subs, but subs and AEGIS can see. If they could it could be a great unit.

	22-11-2002 01:24									#7
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quote: Originally posted by pvzh Destroyers cannot see subs, but subs and AEGIS can see. If they could it could be a great unit.

If destroyers had all the capabilities of other units, there wouldn't be a use for the other units.

Subs also make great "covert" pickets, just as obsolete frigates/ironclads do. Destroyers are the workhorse of the sea.

	28-11-2002 07:35									#8
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I use destroyers for a number of reasons:

1/ when i have a tech lead and there is no benefit in building more expensive battleships when all i need are cheaper destroyers to take out the enemies weak naval units

2/ as 'naval scouts'.... ie they serve the same perpuse as the cruiser in civ2 by covering large tracks looking for enemy units.

3/ blocking high food production tiles- i'll station a destroyer on a high food producing sea unit near an enemy city to hinder their growth

4/ to block off and control chokepoints... ie why use a battleship when a cheaper destroyer can be used to maintain this control. particularly useful when an enemy city with a harbour has access to a small number of sea tiles and you want to prevent them from launching naval units.

5/ i also use destroyers as escorts to accompany my transports and aircraft carriers... ie they absorb the initial damage.

hope this helps.
S

	28-11-2002 07:50									#9
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Too bad Firaxis called them destoyers. They have the characteristics of cruisers.

I don't see any reason to build them, as the build cost is still too close to that of a battleship while they have no advantage over the battleship. And the maintenance cost is the same, of course. Give the destroyer the ability to see subs and it's a good build.

	28-11-2002 08:22									#10
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I don't just think that destroyers have a place in the game, I think the role they have is more important than battleship. Much cheaper but as fast as battleship and if destroyer gets to attack battleship it's 12 vs 12.

	28-11-2002 08:22									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Allemand Too bad Firaxis called them destoyers. They have the characteristics of cruisers. ...

Since (in my universe) they don't represent 1 destroyer but a destroyer/cruiser based task force/flotilla, it doesn't matter much what they are called. Just as battleships represent a number of ships based on a core of battleships.

	28-11-2002 08:48									#12
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It would be great if some units had an upkeep cost greater than 1 gpt. If BBs had a cost of 2, the DD would be much more useful.

tinyp3nis had an excellent point as well. The 12 vs 12 when the DD attacks the BB in MP will be a great equalizer for players lagging in production. Keep the DDs in port and dash out to blast marauding BBs. Every edge counts in MP.

	28-11-2002 13:01									#13
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The DD have more movement than BB and can cover transport better to get to a location faster. Not a bad deal and they are much cheaper.

	28-11-2002 14:38									#14
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You should've ommited the "almost" from your title. I only build a couple destoyers at most in my games. Usually I'll wait for better naval units to come along beofre I expand my Navy.

So long...

	28-11-2002 15:16									#15
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The low price means that you can afford to loose some of them. They are good scouts for your battleships.

	28-11-2002 18:08									#16
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I don't see a need for navies at all. but then i guess that's because i don't play with little islands

I do keep a few small boats sometimes to finish off the enemie naval boats after artillary have savaged them.
(for some strange reason...england still makes a ton of ships even when there is just one continent to fight over )

	28-11-2002 18:46									#17
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Well, there isn't much of a point for a Navy if you play on Pangea but it's always interesting and itspices the game up a bit.


So long...

	28-11-2002 21:44									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Since (in my universe) they don't represent 1 destroyer but a destroyer/cruiser based task force/flotilla, it doesn't matter much what they are called. Just as battleships represent a number of ships based on a core of battleships.

Is marine called "medic" in your universe?

	29-11-2002 01:15									#19
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i think they can be useful... and besides, if there weren't enough modern naval units, then firaxes would get complaints.
and they make good scouts, in a way. you don't want to have wour expensive battleships be picked off by subs, so the best thin to do is to send a couple of destroyers in front of your main fleet.

they can be good for modding to, i like to increase there movement by 1, and give them the "intercept" ability. only being able to hit air with air bugs me.

	29-11-2002 03:49									#20
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quote: Originally posted by tinyp3nis Is marine called "medic" in your universe?

Are marines based around medics?

	29-11-2002 08:57									#21
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect Are marines based around medics?

It's possible he was referring to marines' reputed high casualty rate.

... And no, I do not consider them based on medics.

	29-11-2002 09:11									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe It's possible he was referring to marines' reputed high casualty rate. ... And no, I do not consider them based on medics.

Actually I was just joking about how someone mentioned the Destroyer should be called Cruiser, and you pointed out that in your opinion they should be Destroyers because the fleets have both ships. And if the unit has more characteristics of a Cruiser why it should be Destroyer? Well marine corps have also medics and other people, not just grunts with guns. So I was making fun of that logic but I guess my jokes are farfetched. Oh btw I didn't and don't even know if the unit is more like Destroyer or Cruiser

	29-11-2002 16:35									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Redstar I don't see a need for navies at all. but then i guess that's because i don't play with little islands I do keep a few small boats sometimes to finish off the enemie naval boats after artillary have savaged them. (for some strange reason...england still makes a ton of ships even when there is just one continent to fight over )

The Enlsish AI is set to build ships no matter what the circumstances

	29-11-2002 19:52									#24
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They will definitively build a lot of man-o-wars. Imagine if it is a pangea world and nobody else bothers to build any ships at all? The english would never have a golden age

(well, if they build the lighthouse they will have GA anyway but they wouldn't get it from UU victory)

	30-11-2002 23:21									#25
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I have an excellent use for destroyers. When under threat of coastal bombardment from enemy battleships, use artillery to bombard the battleship. This is almost always successful (far more successful than bombarding units or cities) and can reduce a battleship to 1 hit point. Use destroyers to finish off the battleship. A veteran or elite destroyer will usually beat a battleship with only 1 hit point left. The trick is to keep your destroyers hidden in coastal cities.
In my current game I have used this tactic to kill off 6 or more battleships; without losing a single destroyer.

	01-12-2002 00:36									#26
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They do poorly in bombardment. They have a one square range, so they're only really good for bombarding coastal squares. And they fail more often than battleships in destroying improvements, too.

	01-12-2002 04:10									#27
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i made the older ships upgrade to them, so you end up like the real world navys, alot more Destroyers than anything else.

and don't say anything about that being unfair when it comes to jumping from them to the destroyers, cuz it costs 140/160 to upgrade them! Took me 10 turns to upgrade them all in my game.