21-11-2002 21:32									#1
	Early look at the new Civs Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

What are are early thoughts guys.

I am in the middle of my first game. From that sample here are my thoughts:

Carthage: very strong. Like France but with a much better UU the numidian mercennary.

Ottomans: Also strong. They seemed to have expanded quickly and are number two in my game.

Koreans: I don't get it. They are alone on a sizable island. I made first contact with them. When I got there world map it showed that they had only 8 cities and had only covered half of the island, with no outside threats. Needless to say I was unimpressed.

I have no experiance yet with the celts, scandanavians, spainish, arabs or mongols.

What do you guys think? Info on the civs i haven't mentioned, ones that I have. Its all fair game...

	21-11-2002 21:55									#2
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Being alone on an island usually cripples any AIs performance in that game.

I'd wait to judge the Koreas for a game where they aren't on a deserted island.

	21-11-2002 22:24									#3
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I think as a human player, the Ottomans are going to be unstoppable. Scientific should gives them a technology lead, industrious helps ensure the defensive road network and production is strong, and once they get Sipahi (8.3.3 with the patch), they'll be unstoppable until Replacable Parts, and even after that will give unfortified infantry a run for their money.

I'm playing them now - I built Leo's, and researched Military tradition. 30 gold to upgrade a 4.3.2 knight unit to an 8.3.3 Sipahi. No other opponent on the map has anything with a defence better than 4, and they won't until Nationalism, which is a long way off. It's like knives through butter.

If you're playing MP, the only answer is to kill the Ottomans off before Gunpowder, or at least ensure they never get horses. If they get a technology lead it's game over.

Carthage has good early defense, but the Numidian mercenaries aren't much better than a glorified pikeman once Chivalry is researched.

Don't know about Korea, I don't usually go heavy on the artillery units until the late Industrial/Modern ages, and the need to build wonders for a GA makes it somewhat underpowered for me.

Celts always seem to lag behind when I play against them, althouogh I don't understand why with that UU. They seem to have a very short window in the late bronze age to get in most of their damage.

I just hope I never share a coastline with the Vikings, the ability to attack right off the boat is not to be underestimated, but building a big navy early should stop them from getting their beserkers through, and offensive units like horsies and knights should be able to peg them off if they go the land route. Stacked with pikes they could be a problem for a short time.

Spain - I've never even seen the AI use a conquistador, and if they did, I'm sure they wouldn't even be a nuisance for someone who built their road network properly. They could be aggravating against non-Industrious civs, and in outlying areas that haven't been improved too much.

I think the Arabs and Mongols UU are OK, although they're not very powerful - that early 3 move has a lot of benefits, and the keshik's ability to cross mountains would be useful in conquering civs on the other side of a mountain range. They do need the same movement on hills though - it's not logical that they would move faster on mountains than hills. I think the Arabs unit should cost the same as a normal knight, and the Mongols unit should cost 50 gold instead of 60 to make up for the lost defense point (a keshik on a hill with +50% def. is only equal to a knight on plains) or double their terrain bonuses. Mongols should be able to produce a horde!

	22-11-2002 01:12									#4
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quote: Carthage has good early defense, but the Numidian mercenaries aren't much better than a glorified pikeman once Chivalry is researched.

You are comparing them to Pikemen, which is all well and good, except Pikemen come with Feudalism at the start of the Middle Ages, while Num.Mercs come with Bronzeworking, at the beginning of the game.

Once you build your Merc, you don't need defensive units again at least until Gunpowder. I'm currently at Infantry in my game as Carthage, and I still have a bunch of these guys around, just because I haven't needed to upgrade.

Any time I can build 1 defensive unit at the beginning of the game and keep him until Replaceable Parts, that's a pretty nice unit.


So, at Bronzeworking, I get a unit that attacks like an Archer and Defends like a pikeman - which the other Civs won't get for an entire age. That's pretty nice.

	23-11-2002 13:32									#5
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numidian mercs are especially important due to the frequent close proximity to the roman legions if playing with culture linked starting locations.

	23-11-2002 14:21									#6
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The Koreans are waiting for you to fall into their trap.

The Korean Strat strikes again.