22-11-2002 02:22									#1
	Watch for multiplayer cheats Got spare money?

Just FYI - the new CyberMan trainer works in multiplayer mode. So if you have live opponent that seems to have ungodly amounts of cash, is rushing improvements (even wonders) regardless of city disorder status, and has an enormous tech lead, they're probably cheating.

	22-11-2002 03:13									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Say, uh... what trainer was this again?

	22-11-2002 03:47									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm not sure it's prudent to post the location in public - but these things aren't too hard to find on the web if you're a determined seeker.

	22-11-2002 04:23									#4
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How did you find out?

The more people know the more people will use it in MP. Yeah youll be able to look for the cheats now, but people get good at using these things.

	22-11-2002 04:35									#5
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How did I find out?

I was playing a LAN game at home with the wife. I usually treat her better than the AI when it comes to trade negotiations (for the sake of marital bliss), so, basically, I give her whatever techs I have at minimal cost so she can keep up with me during the game.

I had the trainer running on the pc that she was using, but I hadn't expected it to work in multiplayer mode, thinking, "There's no way Firaxis doesn't find a way to block this... "

Sure enough, right after I trade Monotheism to her, she completes the Sistine Chapel in the next turn. I ask, with some indignation, "Did you just rush the Sistine Chapel?!?

She just gives me the evil grin... so, naturally, I tested the trainer a bit further and discovered that it is indeed fully functional in multiplayer mode, even though the author of the program, to his credit, has posted all over the place that it's NOT designed for that sort of use.

Just figured I'd give a heads-up to everyone about it... although a clever cheater could use it and remain almost totally undetected (as long as he didn't get greedy with it).

	22-11-2002 05:01									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by FNBrown Just figured I'd give a heads-up to everyone about it... although a clever cheater could use it and remain almost totally undetected (as long as he didn't get greedy with it).

Ouch!!! Fixing this should become top priority for any multiplayer patch (well, about 1.15, the next one is already in testing AFAIK).

	23-11-2002 01:25									#7
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hi ,

, that could explain something , ....

but you have to be carefull to point the finger to fast , some players actually plan way in advance a wonder , so that the minute they get the tech , they have the wonder , ......

have a nice day

	23-11-2002 09:42									#8
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yea wat panag said is true. you can work on palace then switch up to sistine once u have the tech.

	23-11-2002 10:30									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

True, true....However, it would be nice if Firaxis could patch this "cheat" - This way ereryone would know that the player planned ahead and squirrel-away his/her production vice taking the way of the cheat.

	23-11-2002 13:28									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Sigh... MP games need as much protection against cheat programs as possible. One can only hope that Firaxis realizes this and tries to tighten security with future patches. If it take a genius to cheat, that's one thing... but when the average player can... it destroys the value of the MP experience... sigh...

	23-11-2002 13:32									#11
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Unfortunately, precautions are only as good as the last version. Same with virii. The guardians move to protect, the hackers (cheaters, etc.) crack the protection.

It remains that we must play with those we know if we wish to be truely safe, and then...

	23-11-2002 14:00									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

That's what we have done with Civ II MP... we only play with people we trust. When new members join "the club", we save every turn and look at them later to see if anything looked "funny"... I guess the same will hold true for Civ III... sigh...

	23-11-2002 14:03									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I don't see any way around it. The programmers could spend millions on trying to protect it, then some whiz bang kid cracks it.

It is not an area that is effecient for them to pay attention to, unfortunately.

btw, that's a bit of an exageration. However, if the codes are there to crack, the crackers will come. They live for the challenge.

	23-11-2002 14:10									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

If it takes a hard core to crack it... fine. No software is really secure. But when the average person can do it with easily available software, or just use flaws in the game, that's a problem. People are generally honest... but let's not tempt them by making it easy

	23-11-2002 14:16									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

True. They could change something to make this cheat ineffective. Then they would trust the author not to renew the assualt.

However, the game sold a million copies, PTW will probably sell 250K. Some of the crowd this game attracts are the serious egg heads.

How long before they decide to have a go? Not long. Hope they do not publish it.

	23-11-2002 21:42									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

That's the big key... Will that hardcores want to keep it to themselves, or make it as common as some of the other cheat programs out there.

But again... playing with known people who you can trust still seems like the best solution.

	23-11-2002 23:12									#17
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wonder if that editor works with PBEM's. I hope not. I have 2 going right now.

	23-11-2002 23:19									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Ming That's what we have done with Civ II MP... we only play with people we trust. When new members join "the club", we save every turn and look at them later to see if anything looked "funny"... I guess the same will hold true for Civ III... sigh...

hi ,

sounds logical , but what a waste of time , ......

some kind of feedback from firaxis would be nice , ....

have a nice day

	23-11-2002 23:48									#19
	Cheaters... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

You know, I think that it's really sad that some people cheat at CIV III multiplayer. I mean... do you really have to? If you're loosing a game, end it, look at what you did wrong, and start a new one. Does your life really depend on a win? Isn't it boring to cheat?

	24-11-2002 00:03									#20
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Just make it as hard as possible to cheat, thats all they can do. The more copies PTW sells the more chance youll meet one of these cheaters online, thats if they dont make it much harder to cheat.

Like the CtP2 rush buy bug, you can do that on a whim, without leaving hardly any evidence, just rush anything in one turn. It didnt even need an external program so that pretty much killed MP. You cant totally block cheats like someone said they just improve, but you can make it harder, thus less people will bother to cheat.

	24-11-2002 00:10									#21
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i'm surprised and shocked firaxis hasn't programmed something against cheating. every MP game must be checked and calculated at different positions (e.g. local and at the hub), that such things cannot happen!

it's ok if you cheat alone - you're just cheating yourself, but in MP or other comparative gamestyles (e.g. GotM@CFC) cheating is a shame.

	24-11-2002 00:15									#22
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf i'm surprised and shocked firaxis hasn't programmed something against cheating. every MP game must be checked and calculated at different positions (e.g. local and at the hub)

Whats that you're saying? You'd like some more lag? Imagine the time it would take to send the file, check the file, and then resend the file!

	24-11-2002 00:38									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf i'm surprised and shocked firaxis hasn't programmed something against cheating. every MP game must be checked and calculated at different positions (e.g. local and at the hub), that such things cannot happen! it's ok if you cheat alone - you're just cheating yourself, but in MP or other comparative gamestyles (e.g. GotM@CFC) cheating is a shame.

hi ,

they where to occupied with adding the "only possible to play with CD in drive" feature , .....

it would be nice if they could fix this cheating problem , ....

have a nice day

	24-11-2002 00:57									#24
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it isn't easy to add something like this later on. it would need a complete reorganisation of the calculations --> impossible that they'll do that.

maybe it's possible to check over gamespy or have a patch that detects trainers (never completely safe, but at least it gets rid of those script kiddies and amateur crackers)

	24-11-2002 01:02									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf it isn't easy to add something like this later on. it would need a complete reorganisation of the calculations --> impossible that they'll do that. maybe it's possible to check over gamespy or have a patch that detects trainers (never completely safe, but at least it gets rid of those script kiddies and amateur crackers)

hi ,

if they really want they can do a lot , ......

instead of making patches , they should start to burn what is new onto the next cd , instead of still burning old stuff , ......

have a nice day

	24-11-2002 05:18									#26
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , if they really want they can do a lot , ...... instead of making patches , they should start to burn what is new onto the next cd , instead of still burning old stuff , ...... have a nice day

burn what new stuff?
do you mean the new patch? i expect it'll be included in the non-US versions (as of december 6th). but the US-version is published, they can't go selling a different build (ok, they COULD, but they won't)

as for patches: as long as there are serious bugs and missing things, they'll have to bring out patches... otherwise the sales for the next game will be a lot lower (only hardcore players will tolerate a game crashing after 40 hours of civin')

	24-11-2002 16:36									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf burn what new stuff? do you mean the new patch? i expect it'll be included in the non-US versions (as of december 6th). but the US-version is published, they can't go selling a different build (ok, they COULD, but they won't) as for patches: as long as there are serious bugs and missing things, they'll have to bring out patches... otherwise the sales for the next game will be a lot lower (only hardcore players will tolerate a game crashing after 40 hours of civin')

hi ,

its not impossible , its done before , so why on earth could it not be done again , ......

they should have a kind of factory recall and fix the thing , sell that and they are going to make loads of money , .......
one , maybe two patches is all that any game needs , that is if its build correctly from the start , .....
without having infogreed wanting this and that every five minutes , .......

have a nice day

	24-11-2002 18:46									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

of course, we'd prefer a perfect game from the beginning on. then no patches would be needed. but as long as the game isn't perfect (or at least very good), i want patches and i want them asap. because the programmers can't do all at once, the patches will be coming out every few weeks to months. that's perfectly fine for me.

just: next time better not release the game until you've got the standard of at least the first patch...!

	25-11-2002 04:27									#29
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Ming That's what we have done with Civ II MP... we only play with people we trust. When new members join "the club", we save every turn and look at them later to see if anything looked "funny"... I guess the same will hold true for Civ III... sigh...

Fortunately us 'poly people have a large and ready supply of like-minded people to play online with, and you can easily tell who's likely to be honest and who it might not be smart to trust just from looking at the forums (mentioning no names ).

we'll be ok, but it's the poor souls who aren't part of a big online community and have to play random games that will suffer from the cheaters.

the best way to check for honest players: if they keep losing all the time it's unlikely that they're cheating.
that's why I'll be the most honest player around.

	25-11-2002 04:46									#30
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet if they keep losing all the time it's unlikely that they're cheating. that's why I'll be the most honest player around.

Truely an honest man...