22-11-2002 07:05									#1
	Why doesn't the AI resign? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Everybody has seen the situation: An AI has been cut down to OCC, is 5 techs behind, without a single resource but labors on and serves as our punching bag, e.g. in case we need to end mobilization rapidly.

Hardly any human player will ever reach this state, we tend to give up long before. One reason for late game tedium is that the AI will hang in there even long after the game is over and all that needs to be done is some mopping up.

Now, if Soren could put in a simple routine in the order of

IF down to x % cities of leader
AND min. 5 techs behind
AND less than x % of the map left to settle
AND no strategic resource
AND less than x % of leader's culture
AND less than x % of leader's military strength

THEN ------> RESIGN (all cities fall to ruins)

This could seriously reduce late game tedium, help some of the more dominant AIs (-> "Killer AI") and even give rise to the new strategy of *scaring* the AI into submission.

I know, it's unrealistic but I'd like to have some feedback on the idea anyway.

	22-11-2002 07:16									#2
	Got spare money?

They were probably afraid of slipping in some sort of exploit.

	22-11-2002 08:26									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The reason human players tend to quit when we get in an untenable position is that we have better things to do with our time. AIs don't; indeed, they cease to exist at all (at least in any practical sense) if we kill off their civs. If you would die if you gave up, wouldn't you be a lot more willing to stick to a game you were losing horribly?

Nathan

	22-11-2002 08:34									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

By the way, the Domination victory condition goes a long way toward addressing the tedium of finishing off AIs that are already in a hopeless position. I guess if you do a lot of razing on your way to a conquest victory, there's some extra tedium involved finishing off the last hopeless civ or two, but if you don't do much razing or you rebuild where you raze, it's exceedingly rare to achieve conquest before the domination threshold is reached.

Nathan

	22-11-2002 08:54									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Besides, we've all seen examples of humans pulling a victory out of nowhere when they were hemmed in, strangled, resource-poor, and woefully obsolete.

Usually, it begins by taking advantage of someone else's war.

Maybe the AI is just waiting for a chance to sneak a win in.

	22-11-2002 13:24									#6
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay By the way, the Domination victory condition goes a long way toward addressing the tedium of finishing off AIs that are already in a hopeless position. I guess if you do a lot of razing on your way to a conquest victory, there's some extra tedium involved finishing off the last hopeless civ or two, but if you don't do much razing or you rebuild where you raze, it's exceedingly rare to achieve conquest before the domination threshold is reached. Nathan

That is why I turn of Domination, if I want to do a Conquest. It is tedious though and I finally had my fill of it.

	24-11-2002 01:18									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Atleast playing one game where one is loosing can be fun can be quite an experience, feeling the hopelessness..... but it is still possible, atleast for a human player, to get back up.

in some games, i may of been small, weak and low tech, yet i still survive and then bite them back hard.

-Mellian

	24-11-2002 06:36									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Per Soren, the AI's existence is for the sole purpose of challenging (hopefully in an entertaining way) the player(s).

If it fails to challenge/entertain, it is the PLAYER's responsibility to do something about it (quit/resign/destroy ...).

	25-11-2002 22:57									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

In fact, the Aztec AI in my game (Emperor level Tiny map)decided to start a war with me rather than die in about 45 minutes from me finishing my space ship.

(And have succeeded in prolonging it's life, 3 hours later and the game isn't over yet with my military campaign going well. And I've had to somewhat lower my reserach rate so it's going to take a few more turns to discover the Laser so the last space ship part can be built.)

The Aztecs are on the other contientant. (As China, I shared my landmass with Japan) I had prebuilt 4 Transports and a large number of Tanks long ago just because they were in the game. So far the major invasion has given me control of 1/3rd of that landmass and the key bottleneck city to the rest of the landmass just fell.) With the Aztecs having Rocketry, I'm wanting to ensure they don't build a nukes that can threaten me. It was easy to get Japan to join the war against the Aztecs, (Japan's army leaves much to be desired as an ally, but the only reason I wanted them in their war on my side is so they wouldn't be on the Aztecs side.)