23-11-2002 02:52									#1
	how a leader is born.... Get a bigger avatar today!

My question is whether there are any factors that influence the promotion of troops, specifically generateing leaders, besides the militaristic civ trait and the epic.

I am working on the premise that when an elite unit would upgrade instead a leader generates. Is this assumption always true?

Does the opponent influence whether an upgrade happens?

ex. does it matter whether my cavalry is fighting a warrior of muskateer?

Does the lenght of the battle matter?

ex. if it is a long close battle does that improve the chances?

Does whether your unit is attacking or defending prove relevant?

Any other causes you guys have come up with.

Is there anything in the code to better help us understand this process?

Thanks guys!

	23-11-2002 03:21									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If an attack with an elite results in a leader, it's always the case that if you had instead attacked with a non-elite, the unit would have been promoted. But the converse isn't neceesary true. This has more to do with pueso-random number generation than anything else.

Military attribute only increases odds of promotion. It helps a lot geting Elite units but doesn't help them produce leaders.

The Epic only improves the odds of leaders. It doesn't increase promotition rates.

There's one important factor though, if you have a leader, you can never get another leader until you use that leader for something.

	23-11-2002 03:23									#3
	Re: how a leader is born.... Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Mr. T My question is whether there are any factors that influence the promotion of troops, specifically generateing leaders, besides the militaristic civ trait and the epic.

No, with one exception noted below. And the militaristic trait does not directly increase the odds of leader generation -- it increases the odds of unit promotions (which may indirectly increase the odds of ultimately getting a leader). Only the Heroic Epic chancges the "base" odds of leader generation.

quote: I am working on the premise that when an elite unit would upgrade instead a leader generates. Is this assumption always true?

No. At the conclusion of a successful battle a "die is rolled" -- i.e., the random number generator (RNG) is consulted to determine if the relevant test (odds) have been met. The chance of a leader generation is 1/12, 1/16, 1/24, or 1/32, depending on circumstances (discussed below). The odds for pormotion are different -- against another player (not a barbarian) the odds of a veteran being promoted to elite are 1 in 4 (militaristic civ) or 1 in 8 (non-militaristic).

quote: Does the opponent influence whether an upgrade happens? ex. does it matter whether my cavalry is fighting a warrior of muskateer? Does the lenght of the battle matter? ex. if it is a long close battle does that improve the chances?

No and No.

quote: Does whether your unit is attacking or defending prove relevant?

Yes - this is the exception. Odds for a leader on defense are halved compared to offense. So, with the Heroic Epic, attacking is 1/12, defending is 1/24. Without the Heroic Epic, attacking is 1/16, defending is 1/32.

quote: Any other causes you guys have come up with.

There are a variety of other related rules. You cannot generate a leader battling barbarians. Armies cannot generate leaders. The same unit can generate only one leader -- and such unit will be identified by a "*" next to its name (but, if upgraded to a "new" unit, the "*" goes away and it can again generate another leader). Only ground units generate leaders (no leaders from naval or aircraft units). Although I haven't seen it myself, I understand that if you play with modified rules to allow lethal bombarment, then a bombarding ground unit (i.e., artillery) can generate a leader. Only one leader at a time - so if you have one already waiting, no unit will produce a second leader.

I may have missed something - doing it from memory.

Catt

	23-11-2002 07:05									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You can, however, generate a GL by an elite killing an Army.

	23-11-2002 09:27									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

artillery cant generate a leader they have no hp thus no status

	23-11-2002 19:12									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Calc II artillery cant generate a leader they have no hp thus no status

I'm told they can with lethal bombard enabled. I played a few games with lethal bombard enabled, and even though they never had HPs, I did see several artillery promoted to elite (but never got a leader).

Catt

	23-11-2002 21:25									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Catt, when are you going to make the definitive FAQ for this game. If anyone should and can, it's you

And if not, Firaxis would do themselves a favor, by letting you write the manual

Ahh avatar, very good, makes your posts easier to spot now, if only theuseus an Arrian would do the same thing
Any info on it?? Is it a link to California or something??

	23-11-2002 22:27									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Off-Topic: Thanks, Alva!

The avatar . . . it is more or less totally random. There are so many Civ 3 Marine avatars around that I started having trouble identifying my own posts! So I just wanted something unique, but without any specific meaning. I saw an apple on someone's desk, went to the google image search engine and typed in "fruit." Some raspberries came up, and I thought to myself, "I have never seen a raspberry avatar, anywhere." Job done.

Catt

	24-11-2002 01:56									#9
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Catt Off-Topic: Thanks, Alva! The avatar . . . it is more or less totally random. There are so many Civ 3 Marine avatars around that I started having trouble identifying my own posts! So I just wanted something unique, but without any specific meaning. I saw an apple on someone's desk, went to the google image search engine and typed in "fruit." Some raspberries came up, and I thought to myself, "I have never seen a raspberry avatar, anywhere." Job done. Catt

You're just giving the Admins the raspberries, right?

	24-11-2002 10:26									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Catt I'm told they can with lethal bombard enabled. I played a few games with lethal bombard enabled, and even though they never had HPs, I did see several artillery promoted to elite (but never got a leader). Catt

They can produce leaders. I play with modded rules and have done this (Lethal Bombardment with my elite artillery producing Lee)