25-11-2002 03:55									#31
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The only bad thing that could happen is to get finished (and delayed) game with some serious bugs.

Although that sound pretty much unlikely.
(becouse it IS delayed to minimize bugs)

	25-11-2002 04:08									#32
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quote: (sounds like the guys on the IG forum are gonna get what they seem to want--that is being kept totally in the dark until after its gold)

This would be for the best. Keeps people like me from complaining. I was hoping it was going to be in stores on the 4th. Looks like it will be a bit longer. Oh well.

	25-11-2002 05:24									#33
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Then I'm guessing for tuesday dec 10, 9:30 A.M. when the store opens...

	25-11-2002 06:40									#34
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quote: This would be for the best. Keeps people like me from complaining. I was hoping it was going to be in stores on the 4th. Looks like it will be a bit longer. Oh well.

Its for the best provided its out in the next 30 days If they miss christmas without saying a word, then I suspect public opinion might go a tad sour

	25-11-2002 09:06									#35
	Suffering from ads?

Missing XMAS will signal a serious problem.

	25-11-2002 09:06									#36
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG Bird-O-Prey, you're not following the trend. the march 29 delay was for a whole quarter(from q2 to q3) the next for 56 days(from the last day of q3 to nov 26) the last one for just 8 days(to dec 4 ) so the next delay should be for 2-3 days at most. then we go to hours...

Then you go to seconds, then microseconds. pretty soon you hit somthing refered to in math as an asymptote... a theoretical "end" which is so infinite that you can't ever actually get to the end of it!

	25-11-2002 09:13									#37
	Increase the size of your Attachments

its getting exponentially smaller!

	25-11-2002 23:18									#38
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by MarkG quote: The carrot(s) that they keep 'dangling' are the dates. you might want to admit that they are not bringing new dates very often. to be exact - march 29: date is set for q3 2002...

Well, the original plan was for the game to appear in 2001, if I remember correctly...

	26-11-2002 02:21									#39
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quote: the original plan was for the game to appear in 2001

even if you count those i think you'd get that the delay time is decreasing exponentially

	26-11-2002 03:43									#40
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To comment briefly.

I was as surprised as anyone when we didn't go gold on Friday. We had accepted that was pretty much a set deal and while there were a couple of lingering bugs, they were smallish ones, and ones that everyone felt we could ship with. You never want to ship with bugs, but the practical realities of the market tend to interject.

IG has done something I have honestly never seen, that is, delay release of a game, just because it could benefit from extra time to bug and double and triple check balance issues.

Conspiracists of course, love this because they can say 'aha! see! It's not ever coming out!' But I will tell you honestly that you could not be more wrong. The game is VERY playable and a lot of fun (both team members, and external players are losing sleep over playing it. Not because of bugs, but because it's FUN!)

There is NOTHING in the world we want more than to get the game into your hands, and like kids trying to keep a secret at christmas, it KILLS to not be able to hand it out yet, but at the same time, being able to take it 'up a notch' when we're already getting very positive feedback, says volumes about IG's commitment to this game. An unheard of thing, in this day and age

	26-11-2002 04:00									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Rantz IG has done something I have honestly never seen, that is, delay release of a game, just because it could benefit from extra time to bug and double and triple check balance issues.

Why?
Why?
Why?

Why is Infogrames so nice to QS, while on the other hand supports rush of Civ3 and Civ3:PtW?

Why?
Why?
Why?

	26-11-2002 04:03									#42
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Well after the Civ3 Debacle an interesting Change of Company Politics it would seem

Well Time to finish some Work till Release. But if it is skipped again I will get angry! :P

	26-11-2002 04:53									#43
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Actually Civ3 wasn't debacle at all.
It sold very well.

So Infogrames though that same could be done with Civ3:PtW.
(rushing)

But it gave a MOJOR bug in MP, making it almost unplayable.

So I guess that Infogrames doesn't want to risk to get another such bug in MOO3 too.

	26-11-2002 09:27									#44
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Well, IG has okayed delays this far already, a little longer for the bug free game they were aiming for seems logical. I doubt they care about a few days delay, as long as MOO3's out for Christmas.

	26-11-2002 13:39									#45
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I can not speak for them, but getting it out in the next week or 10 days is very important to get the benifits of the xmas sales. The number of people coming through will be much lower after the holidays end.

	26-11-2002 14:00									#46
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Even though I can no longer but myself moo3 as a birthday present, I am happy they delay it. I mean it is better for us to get a game with no corrupted saves than one with.
I think the project has been managed well from IG point of view, and maybe this is due to the manager rather than the firm. I don't think the title had the same sales expectations as civ3, which may have given more freedom to the developers, too.
I am mostly pissed off by the fact that the IG forums seem to be full of people who complain at Chantz whereas as he says he just gives information and this time you can't say they rush the game out with bug. It is such complaining that made them rush games in the first time. Nice to see people here are more positive.
Otherwise, I must say I share wervdon's opinions on the coding part, but want to point out that in windows you can have a debugger automatically launched when a program crashes, which is (almost) as good as a core file, so QS should in theory be able to debug any crash.

	26-11-2002 14:01									#47
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LOL, all the above commercial considerations are of course correct...
I don't know whether this would console Rantz or make him mad, but most likely *I* will be one of those helping smooth out the sales curve, by indeed "coming through after the holidays end"...

	26-11-2002 16:38									#48
	Tired of ads?

I honestly am to old to really care about when Moo3 hits the stores - I have no problem waiting. But I'd be disappointed to see it miss the huge x-mas buying binge, since that will drastically reduce the chances of patches and expansions. If Moo3 doesn't sell enough IG will drop it without so much as a shrug. And x-mas sells a lot.

	26-11-2002 18:36									#49
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quote: Originally posted by fatjoe79 hey unless they're flat out lying here, it's good to see QS not just shipping the game and patching a couple days after release. It's nice to see a commitment to quality that most developers *cough*firaxis*cough* don't seem to have.

Since I bought Civ3 & PTW and plan to get MOO3, I only hope that QS is as dedicated to CONTINUING to work on their product after it ships as Firaxis has been. You may not like how or when Civ3 was shipped but the improvements made to the original via patches (made largely from player feedback, which is almost impossible to get even WITH beta testing) has been very solid thus far.

I have faith in QS fixing any major bugs that MOO3 has, but will they continue to refine and tweak the game once it's out and thousands of people start the feedback process? Only time will tell.

	26-11-2002 19:30									#50
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quote: Even though I can no longer buy myself moo3 as a birthday present,

You can always buy it for yourself as a late birthday present...

As for myself, I also plan to buy MOO3 as a birthday present for myself. I'm hoping it will be out well before my birthday, though: December 24.

	26-11-2002 21:06									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Rantz To comment briefly. IG has done something I have honestly never seen, that is, delay release of a game, just because it could benefit from extra time to bug and double and triple check balance issues.

Good for IG and good for QS. Keep it (for a little while) make it better. We will all be happier for it.

I like to see this approach to first release quality. Bioware did the same thing for NWN. Although there were (and still are) patches post release, the game shipped with only minor bugs that werent show stoppers. I havent bought PTW yet, but from what I hear, there is just no excuse for that kind of drivel being released. Triple check away!

Now I just hope that MOO3 is a success and there will be some good post sale support to not only fix whatever minor bugs that will surely appear, but make the game better as time passes.

Keep up the good work!

	26-11-2002 23:28									#52
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Talking of Christmas...... Any chance of it coming out in time so we can all have some yuletide fun conquoring the Galaxy? I sure hope so.

	27-11-2002 01:11									#53
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG Bird-O-Prey, you're not following the trend. the march 29 delay was for a whole quarter(from q2 to q3) the next for 56 days(from the last day of q3 to nov 26) the last one for just 8 days(to dec 4 ) so the next delay should be for 2-3 days at most. then we go to hours...

So the time we have to wait is the sum of a decresing sequence. But is it convergent?

	27-11-2002 06:07									#54
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I guess it's because Chantz is in charge of MOO3 at IG

In any case, it's good to see a PUBLISHER deciding to delay the game to fix minor bugs and balance issues...I'm relieved that there's only minor stuff left.

But one thing IG should realize is it would behoove them to not delay too long over extremely minor problems....they need to take advantage of enough of the holiday shopping season to maximize sales (especially impulse gift buys)....if they release any later then say Dec 10th they're in trouble. ...and that means no MOM2

I personally wouldn't mind if there's a patch on release day or close to it....as long as it's playable out of the box, MOO3 won't suffer much in reviews.

	27-11-2002 14:15									#55
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quote: I personally wouldn't mind if there's a patch on release day or close to it

actually, you can be certain that something like this will happen no matter what

	27-11-2002 19:48									#56
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This is really amazing...but will IG also give MOO3 the markenting it deserves?