25-11-2002 09:20									#1
	Does the AI ever give gifts? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Say you're on really good terms with another civ, would they ever give you a gift of gold or a map or even a tech? (without you demanding it)

Furthermore, has anyone ever actually gotten a grant of gold from another civ?

	25-11-2002 09:23									#2
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Never happened to me. Nothing the AI's ever done has made me think of it as being generous.

	25-11-2002 09:33									#3
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Never got one eiher.

	25-11-2002 09:56									#4
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Me neither...

I would love to see the AI engage in this level of diplomacy but I just don't see it happening in the near future. It makes me wonder what the motivation of gift giving is at all:
- Refreshing close ties with an ally etc. (small gifts, symbolic mostly)
- Trying to assist a significantly weaker civ. In real life this is called a "humanitarian mission."
In Civ it is used to maintain a balance of power. Understanding a balance of power is an incredible subjective and personal matter, I believe it is simply out to the reach of present AI to successfully grasp it. True balance is much more than a staticstical analysis of units etc.
- Gaining someones "good will". This is what I assume most players give gifts to the AI for. As in "I'm sorry that you capured my spies sneaking around... here is a care package to show you how sorry I really am."

	25-11-2002 11:20									#5
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I've never gotten a gift out of the blue. Although you shouldn't shy away from demanding goodies if you know your military is vastly superior, the AI will often cave.

Last edited by Carver on 26-11-2002 at 06:19

	25-11-2002 16:02									#6
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I also would like to see this happen. Maybe it could be implemented this way: after a war that was won by the human player, the AI would check periodically its forces and compare them to the human player's army. If the human army is stronger than the AI forces, then the AI could give the human player a small gift just as a means of maintaining a good relationship. I'm sure that this would surprise us so much that we would really consider leaving them alone...

	25-11-2002 22:38									#7
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I doubt that Alexnm, well not for very long at any rate.

	26-11-2002 12:55									#8
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It has never happened to me!

So long...

Last edited by The Pioneer on 27-11-2002 at 12:15

	26-11-2002 13:48									#9
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You have to 'squeeze' the gifts from AI.

"Hello. Would you accept these dyes as a gift?" - has never happened to me...

	26-11-2002 14:30									#10
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Gifts from the AI would be a novelty for me, never seen it happen in one year of intensive playnig.

I'm not so succesfull in squeezing gifts either. The 'take this deal or suffer option' usually results in the latter. Renegotiating peace gives me better results but only when I ask for gold. Techs and/or luxuries seem to be out of the question. Anyone more succesfull has any suggestions here?

ProPain

	27-11-2002 02:15									#11
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Propain I think it relates to just how big an immediate threat they see you to be. For instance if you have large stacks outside several of their cities when you sue for peace then they may just be more willing to comply, OTOH I recently had a situation like this as Rome with MA sitting on the steps of at least 6 Zulu cities defended with Impi's and they still said go f**k yourself, so who knows the AI is quite bizarre at times!

	27-11-2002 02:31									#12
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Actually, i HAVE seen it happen in a multiplayer LAN game. I dunno if it behaves differently in that, me and my friend were playing, and hes pretty new at civ (cough sucks cough) and he was in that civ 3 trading glow and was giving things to the Persians when Xerxes (after my friend giving him a gift) gave my friend a gift of i forget how much gold. This was in the early game, and he was gracious.

	27-11-2002 04:04									#13
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I seem to remember the AI giving me a small gift of gold, but this was before most patches.(and it was so long ago I cant remember if they were demanding tribute or giving a gift.)

	27-11-2002 18:11									#14
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never happened to me

	27-11-2002 18:55									#15
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I can't imagine this ever happening - even before the new patches.

The AI is programmed to give the human player the finger right up until that AI civ is exterminated. This is because as you become more powerful, the other civs become more and more irritated with you.

You'd have to be amazingly weak and yet still adored by another civ in order to [theoretically] get a gift.

If anyone ever does see this, please send a saved version from the previous turn to me or post it here.

	27-11-2002 19:32									#16
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the AI has never given me anything.

	27-11-2002 21:15									#17
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No, never seen it happen. But I wonder If people would do these things in PTW?

	27-11-2002 21:19									#18
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quote: Originally posted by ProPain Gifts from the AI would be a novelty for me, never seen it happen in one year of intensive playnig. I'm not so succesfull in squeezing gifts either. The 'take this deal or suffer option' usually results in the latter. Renegotiating peace gives me better results but only when I ask for gold. Techs and/or luxuries seem to be out of the question. Anyone more succesfull has any suggestions here? ProPain

Usually you WILL get tech, but mostly in the early ages after taking a few cities of them. Then they eagerly want peace, so they will give you a lot. No more than 3 techs in my games....

Bytheway, last night I was really pissed. I was working my butt off to reach the Great Library first and I didn't make it. I was 4 turns away from reaching it!

	28-11-2002 01:11									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The AI has never offered me a gift, never. Although my last game I had something really unique happen to me. France wanted me to sign an MPP with them so bad they offered me two Techs on top of it. That was new for me.

	28-11-2002 04:03									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Traelin !
Now thats interesting, were they at war already or did they get into a war soon after the treaty was signed ?

How did they rank in the game compared to you ie were they stronger or weaker than you and how did they compare to the other AI ?

	28-11-2002 05:21									#21
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Only happened to me once, when I was on gracious terms with someone, I think it was Alexander (ick), and the little chap hauled off and gave me 50 gold out of the clear blue.

	28-11-2002 05:28									#22
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Never had one give me a gift either...Did give gifts once so I could win votes in the election and they double crossed me and voted against me ...the buggers..

	28-11-2002 12:59									#23
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus Traelin ! Now thats interesting, were they at war already or did they get into a war soon after the treaty was signed ? How did they rank in the game compared to you ie were they stronger or weaker than you and how did they compare to the other AI ?

I had that once as well. I was stronger than they were. I believe they weren't at war at the time, but soon after the MPP they were attacked....

One other time (this time not so much benefits for me) I had a stronger AI offer an MPP with me and gave gold. They already had MPP's with nearly all other civs. Could someone explain to me what would happen when a war breaks out and a third civ has an MPP with both of them?

	28-11-2002 21:03									#24
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Kampus:

I have ahd civs give me tech when negotiating a peace treaty, no problem there. Once they realise you're gonna waste them unless they give in I usually get tech, gold, cities and maps. But REnegotiating a peace treaty after the 20 turn peace has expired usually gives poorer results. I have gotten gold but never techs. The 'take this deal or suffer' option gives even worse results.

The MPP triangle:
It quite simple actually. An AI civ has MPP with you and a third civ. You declare war on the third civ (or otherway around) how does the second civ react?

They side with the first party that gets attacked.

So the best thing to do is declare war but don't attack. Leave a weak unit within reach of the third AI and wait till it gets attacked. Second AI will side with you.

ProPain

	28-11-2002 21:42									#25
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quote: Originally posted by ProPain The MPP triangle: It quite simple actually. An AI civ has MPP with you and a third civ. You declare war on the third civ (or otherway around) how does the second civ react? They side with the first party that gets attacked. So the best thing to do is declare war but don't attack. Leave a weak unit within reach of the third AI and wait till it gets attacked. Second AI will side with you.

Almost perfect!

You forgot to mention that WHERE the attack happens makes a difference as well.

For example, if there are enemy troops in your territory and you attack them, the third civ won't do anything. You actually have to make an attack within THEIR territory, or alternatively they have to move into your territory AND make an attack, before the third civ will honor the MPP.

	28-11-2002 23:36									#26
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Bang on fittstim.

	29-11-2002 06:42									#27
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus Traelin ! Now thats interesting, were they at war already or did they get into a war soon after the treaty was signed ? How did they rank in the game compared to you ie were they stronger or weaker than you and how did they compare to the other AI ?

I've been number one in this game since day one (in histographic measures [i.e., score and usually power). However, my military was sucky because I was about 5-6 techs behind everyone else. The second place person in terms of score was Carthage, with everyone else on almost the exact same level. After I signed the MPP, I was pleased that they didn't actually go to war with anyone. Not a single person. Really weird, but I got 2 free techs outta it.

EDIT: And if I recall, the techs they gave me were Motorized Transportation and something else. Very worthwhile.

EDIT EDIT: Oh yeah, and the reason I fell so far behind in techs was because of the stupid Mongols. I traded them a couple resources for 21 gpt, but they got knocked down to one city when I had two turns left on the deal, and they couldn't make the payments. IMHO it's really really really stupid that I get punished for their lack of payments. Now very few Civs will do gpt deals with me, unless I have been doing deals with them the whole game.

	29-11-2002 12:31									#28
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Yes that is something that needs to be put right, you should not be held responsible when the AI breaks a deal. This happens to me all the time especially late game,

Ive even had the AI tell me that they wont do say ROP because I did some bad thing to some other civ under the same treaty when in reality Ive never had such a treaty. I reckon its set to dislike you whatever in late game and so tells lies even more so since 1.29.

	29-11-2002 14:48									#29
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Fittstim: Thanx, didn't know that! Makes things easier.

ProPain

	30-11-2002 22:12									#30
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The AI should be more active in diplomacy, I've never gotton a gift either.

They should be able to give you gifts, and ask you what you want for a certain tech/amount of gld/city/etc. They're too stingy!!