25-11-2002 22:05									#1
	Thought's on Closing out game Got spare money?

Right, Interesting situation in current game. I am the main power, and have been for the last 300 years since Winning the Great war against Germany. However, going into the modern era of what is possibly the best game i've played i'm worried about how i'm going to get that big win.

Demo Victory
Really unsure about this, Just built the UN but fear i'll lose the vote. all the AI's are always furious with me, unless i bribe them every now again, i'm not sure whether it has anything to do with the slaves i employ to build my railways . However F11 says my approval rating is 2nd . India, who are the 2nd biggest are no dought everyone's cup of tea too...
Is it worth building relations for a Demo win?? and if so , how?

Culture
Dont like winning this way anyway, but the chances are America would reach 100,000 points before london reached 20,000. Can somone clarify the 100000 victory condition a little more for me please.

Space race and domination.

Conquest
Seems dounting, i may be biggest power (about 25% better than India and 50% better than the others) but it's sure a big world (Map size huge).

Score
It's 1850.

	25-11-2002 22:38									#2
	Re: Thought's on Closing out game Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Rothy Demo Victory Really unsure about this, Just built the UN but fear i'll lose the vote. all the AI's are always furious with me, unless i bribe them every now again, i'm not sure whether it has anything to do with the slaves i employ to build my railways . However F11 says my approval rating is 2nd . India, who are the 2nd biggest are no dought everyone's cup of tea too... Is it worth building relations for a Demo win?? and if so , how?

If I were you, I would use my UN just to prevent the vote from taking place. The UN vote is usually too much risk. Especially if you are not on good long-term terms with other civs.

BTW, the F11 approval rating has nothing to do with other civs, it's how much YOUR OWN people love you.

quote: Originally posted by Rothy Culture Dont like winning this way anyway, but the chances are America would reach 100,000 points before london reached 20,000. Can somone clarify the 100000 victory condition a little more for me please.

Don't worry about the 100,000 culture point victory. There is an additional condition to be fulfilled. The civ to reach this level must have at least twice as many culture points as any other in the game.

quote: Originally posted by Rothy Space race

Space race is what I usually end up winning with. If you keep (at least slightly) ahead of others tech-wise, build an effective economy and keep a decent army to repel any attacks, this is probably the easiest and most risk-free victory option for you.

quote: Originally posted by Rothy and domination. Conquest Seems dounting, i may be biggest power (about 25% better than India and 50% better than the others) but it's sure a big world (Map size huge).

You would probably reach domination before conquest anyway (unless you keep razing conquered cities). Either of these two assumes you go warring. If you like warring, it may be the quickiest way to winning the game, considering how much larger you are compared to other countries. Tedious for me, but that's just me...

quote: Originally posted by Rothy Score It's 1850.

Winning by score will most probably not be an option for you as you will inevitably reach another victory before 2050AD.

	25-11-2002 23:55									#3
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How many civs are still around? Sometimes it's pretty easy to get really friendly with enough smaller/backwards civs to win a UN vote. I'm in the habit of keeping the little guys supplied with enough technology to defend themselves against whatever their larger neighbors currently have. My neighbors are the exception, of course. Anyway, this tends to keep me pretty popular with all the small civs because I just give them techs for nothing (as long as they are safely well behind me in the tech race, which they usually are by the time I get ToE).

	26-11-2002 02:53									#4
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Right, what i meant to say in my first post is that Domination and Space Race are disabled!

This leaves Military as looking most likely Victory.

These are the Empires on the game, each has been given a number to represent thier Size, relative to everyone else


France 1 (tiny!)
Germany 10
Japan 12
China 15
Greece 16
America 18
India 22
Me(England) 28


Germany Hates me, Thier now small empire is very efficient however and thier size doesnt represent thier power fairly.

Japan are quite humble and could well be made an ally, they are currently 'annoyed' with me tho.

China also hates me, they were powerful, but are tech wise in the dark ages

Greece has never been keen me, they are my eastern neighbours but only share a small border

America are cool with me, and always have been.

India always like me, but are likely to be my biggest opponents for any victory!


Cheers
Matt

	26-11-2002 04:15									#5
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one question, does pollution affect scores? i remember in civ2 every polluted tile was deduction in score. but in civ3 i dont get a chance to clean up the tile when ive built my last spaceship part..

	26-11-2002 05:06									#6
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I would suggest playing the samller civs against each other, and then taking out the victor. Try to get America and India against each other to get India a communist government, which will help you establish a good tech lead. Rush for MA.

	26-11-2002 08:03									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

I do not find anything that mentions pollutioned tiles as a factor for the score.

	26-11-2002 08:11									#8
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Interesting idea king, will look into that. If i can get allies against india i may even get popular enough to win the vote.

Just want the quickest victory right now tho, so i can move onto a new game ... 10 minutes in-between turn time is killing me!!

	26-11-2002 11:26									#9
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Ok , Just got most of the world to declare war on India, half of my 'allies' nevertheless dislike me too tho. Does this matter?? in a Vote will they choose me first because they are at war with Ghandi!?!?

Is thier attitute towards you the main factor??

Finally, I opted not to let the vote happen when i built the UN, how can i now get the vote to happen?
Cheers
Matt

	26-11-2002 14:06									#10
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It will ask you on a regular basis IIRC. I think you can initiate it as well, but I never paid any attention to it as the one time it was called I was voted out, so no more votes.

	26-11-2002 14:10									#11
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The only thing mentioned is the need to have 25% of the land and pop to be able to have an election.

	26-11-2002 18:37									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy ... 10 minutes in-between turn time is killing me!!

Buy more RAM!! My between turns time went from over 10 minutes down to less than 30 seconds by doubling the amount of RAM (256mb --> 512mb). And RAM is cheap right now.

	26-11-2002 20:16									#13
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Build the UN and don't allow a vote - you're not in a good position to win and could easily lose.

I won a diplo victory earlier this week. Early 1800's, I'd had a brief, 3-turn war with Rome about 100 BC, took two cities and was a great neighbor after that. I gifted several smaller civs, and struck generous trade deals with the larger ones. Built UN, called for a vote and won - by an 8-7 vote. I was pretty shocked as a couple of civs voted for Japan after being at war with them off and on for hundreds of years.

Diplomatic victory can be a crapshoot.

	26-11-2002 21:21									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Crikey, it looks like a long hard 200 year slog to win by conquest or culture then... oh well..

btw Willbill , did you keep slaves? I think this annoys the AI even if they arent THIER people

	27-11-2002 04:11									#15
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Slaves annoy all AI, IIRC.
Do you have a city that contains several wonders? if so, build as much cultural improvements as possible and check the city with the culture advisor. You should be able to estimate whether you can hit 20000 culture before 2050.

	27-11-2002 04:44									#16
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London has Pyramids,Sistine,Newtons and UN, as well as some small wonders, but will hit about 2020, it's 1860

	27-11-2002 06:11									#17
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Something wierd just happened. In the middle of the war, and the reminder asking me for the UN vote came up, so i decided i'd go for it, after all, i'm getting tired of the game now. So, it comes up, and as i expect it's between Me and Ghandi, we both vote for ourselves, but the wierd thing is nearly everyone abstains!?!?!

Greece voted for me, as i expected, as did Japan but Germany,China,America and France abstained meaning vote was inconclusive!!

Why did they all bloody abstain!?!

How many have to abstain to make vote inconclusive anyway??

Cheers
Matt

	27-11-2002 18:35									#18
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Ha! That happened to me once, too. I thought "Let's end this... win or lose", and a bunch of the AIs abstained. You need a simple majority in order to win the vote; so if there are 8 Civs, you need five votes to win.

I would try to win over France and America with some extravagant gift giving. Visit them every turn and lavish techs/money on them. You might try China, too, since they're so far behind in techs. You could really pile it on them. Then when the vote comes up again after 10 years, perhaps they'll be more inclined to vote for you.

	27-11-2002 19:01									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy Something wierd just happened. In the middle of the war, and the reminder asking me for the UN vote came up, so i decided i'd go for it, after all, i'm getting tired of the game now. So, it comes up, and as i expect it's between Me and Ghandi, we both vote for ourselves, but the wierd thing is nearly everyone abstains!?!?! Greece voted for me, as i expected, as did Japan but Germany,China,America and France abstained meaning vote was inconclusive!! Why did they all bloody abstain!?! How many have to abstain to make vote inconclusive anyway?? Cheers Matt

They abastained because they hate both You and India, if you go for diplo victory be gracious to the weaker civs before the vote.

	28-11-2002 06:41									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Rothy London has Pyramids,Sistine,Newtons and UN, as well as some small wonders, but will hit about 2020, it's 1860

Build exclusively improvements that produce culture, really try to get wonders in that city, and in the meanwhile pump MA out of your other core cities, start a war, and sit back and enjoy the show.
Aim for both victories and accept whatever comes first.

	28-11-2002 08:09									#21
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You should build up your culture , not just for aculture win, but mainly so you improve the civs attitude towards you.. and help to win diplomatically. India may have a strong culture, but you can get a bigger culture than germany , france etc, (advisor says they are in awe of you) Maybe just wipe out any civs that don't like you too, then they can't vote against you.

	28-11-2002 15:34									#22
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How does cenocide effect foreign relations?

	28-11-2002 20:33									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Tattila the Hun How does cenocide effect foreign relations?

They AI's generally don't like it when you 'off' one of their own, they frown on that kind of thing unless they were at war with them also. That being said, wiping out one or two civs won't hurt you a lot but when you have wiped out more than that they start to wonder if they are next on the hit list.