30-11-2002 07:38									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Lemmy, check the post again. I edited some parts.
I am really sorry it is late here in Brazil and i really need some sleep. Tomorrow i will comment what've you posted.

	30-11-2002 15:11									#32
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

No problem, it was pretty late here too when i posted (3:30 AM), so i may have missed some parts of text

* Lemmy makes note to self, "never post after 1:00 AM"

	30-11-2002 15:50									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn Looks nice. I dont actually see any difference. But J could come up with something

How about :

The Minister of Defense may not order any action which would result in a declaration of war without this action first being approved by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).

	30-11-2002 17:18									#34
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Ok Pedrunn, I think we're not really talking to each other. It might very well be that you actually agree with me! Anyway, this is how I would want it to be:

quote: (f) In case of absence of one minister and all of its delegates during the game playing, the president will assume it functions and act in this absent citizen behalf. If two or more minister and all of its respectives delegates are missing the game playing will have to be delayed to a day defined by the President.

Scrap - it should be even more restrictive but not about absence during gameplay:
In case of the total absence of orders for a turn from a minister or his delegates the president may not play on

quote: (b) The President may use turnchats, turnthreads, or any other method approved by the Court to play the game session.

This id good and it doesn't force the pres to actually play the turns while all the others are present since that can be rather difficult to arrange.

quote: (c) The President must follow the instructions of the Court and Ministers while playing the game unless the instruction is clearly erroneous, or made impossible and/or harmful by changed circumstances. In this case, the President can bring this decision into the vote of resolution poll if the minister doesn’t accept the President opinion therefore halting the game.

Reword to:
The President must follow the instructions of the Court, Ministers and passed resolution polls while playing the game. If an instruction is clearly erroneous, or made impossible and/or harmful by changed circumstances, or in absence of specific instructions the President may decide in the best interest of the game.
This gives the pres the power to play the turns even if a minister forgot the order for one city, one unit or for a diplomatic proposal thta turns up, however he has no veto powers because his actions clearlc need justification and because of the first article above the pres has no right to just make all orders up if a minister doesn't give any.

	30-11-2002 19:24									#35
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Lemmy and Mapfi,

I see where we are diverging. Correct if i am wrong.

My idea has the following order of events:

1) Discussions Time - The ministers and citizens start discussions about what to do next (dicussion threads, official and resolution poll,...)
2) Make Agenda - The minister and presidents make an agenda with what was decided in the dicussion time. (This agenda must be written in this article but it is not yet)
3) Set date to play the game - The Pres set a date to start a turn chat/thread to meet with all of it minister or the minister representations (delegates). If one position (the actual minister or a delegate) doesnt show up the Pres can take its function and continue the game. If two or more are absent a new date has to be schedule (So the president has to talk to all ministe to find the best day an hour).
4) Turn-Chat while playing the game - As the orders happens and the AI moves the Pres report what happened to the minister and delegates in the turn-chat/thread. And these minister make decisions on what to do next turn. Keeping the game moving.
5) End of the Turn-Chat - The Minister and the Pres end the turn-chat when think they played enough (should we limit the max number of turns playble in a turn chat?) or something very bad happened to make them decide that is better rport to the community first rather than keep playing or the president has decided on his own to end the turn-chat (as defined in section 2-I.c).
6) Report to the community - The current stage of game, the history (do we need a historian?) of what have happened during the turn-chat, and the save-games (for every turn?) is posted to all citzens as defined in section 1-h(I think we should write in this section that the Pres is encharge of this reports). The discussion time is re-started.

Mapfi idea is different from mine in the part 3, right?
In which the President doenst need to have all minister or minister represantation in the turn-chat. If a minister is missing he can play the game on his own making the decisions for these absent ministers.
Correct if i am wrong. So that we can discuss about it.

Last edited by Pedrunn on 30-11-2002 at 20:53

	30-11-2002 19:29									#36
	Increase the size of your Attachments

J, Looks very nice much better. But i will make a small chage so that it can in accordance with section 3-II.d of the polling article.

"The Minister of Defense may not order any action which would result in a declaration of war without this action first being evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II)."

	30-11-2002 19:59									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yes Pedrunn, I disagree with 3 and 4.

This is the way I see it and also the way in which the other DG's work:

1. Discussion
2. Orders The Pres opens a thread for the ministers' orders for a (by him) specified amount of turns with a deadline and with a time to meet for a turnchat (if he wants to, because if it's only orders for two turns this is not necessary). There's no chance all ministers, nor always one of his delegates will make it for that turnchat (look at us trying to set up times for MP games in the trophy!)
3. Gameplay The Pres executes all the orders he has got (unless of course one office hasn't given any orders yet because of laziness? He'll have to wait and we will impeach that lazy minister ) If something unexpected happens or some little order is missing the Pres decides if it's grave enough to stop already or if he should just decide that little thing on his own and play on. He can only play the number of turns specified in the order thread, of course
4. Report The Pres gives a full and detailed report to the community and of course the savegame

So, my suggestion above handle this all. The pres has to announce the number of turns he'd like to play and that's the limit. Because otherwise he'd end up with no orders for a turn and then he's required to stop immeadetly.

Your way will be way too restrictive and as I said before, this game will never progress this way, I'm sure. If however the majority decides it want's it to be that way, well, I'll accept that of course

	01-12-2002 03:10									#38
	Put an end to popups!

Mapfi, I am in favour of...

2) Discussion

quote: There's no chance all ministers, nor always one of his delegates will make it for that turnchat (look at us trying to set up times for MP games in the trophy!)

I see... I will start thinking in the worst case and take this statement as a rule according to what has been experienced in the MP tourny. Therefore I am in favour of removing the reponsiblity of the minister or his delegate of being in the turn-chat.

4) Report

quote: The Pres gives a full and detailed report to the community and of course the savegame

I will make this clear in the next article update.


But i am against...

3. Gameplay

quote: The Pres executes all the orders he has got (...) If something unexpected happens or some little order is missing the Pres decides if it's grave enough to stop already or if he should just decide that little thing on his own and play on.

You mean not having the turn-chat session for discussion of every order given to the Pres, the consequence this acts may cause and any new event caused by the AI if the subjective President thoughts dont think worth telling!?!
I am totatlly against for sure.
I am in favour of setting a date to play the game and the president will report what he is doing and what it has caused in a chat or thread. Anyone can start a dicussion about these new events or just check the game evolving. Although any decision in this chat will be made by the ministers or the delegates or the president (in that oder of presence).

	01-12-2002 16:56									#39
	Suffering from ads?

quote: You mean not having the turn-chat session for discussion of every order given to the Pres, the consequence this acts may cause and any new event caused by the AI if the subjective President thoughts dont think worth telling!?! I am totatlly against for sure.

That's why we must elect a president we can trust

quote: I am in favour of setting a date to play the game and the president will report what he is doing and what it has caused in a chat or thread. Anyone can start a dicussion about these new events or just check the game evolving. Although any decision in this chat will be made by the ministers or the delegates or the president (in that oder of presence).

Having a turnchat and evaluate every order may be possible in the beginning, but if we want the game to progress a bit later on, turnchats will take forever. In the 3rd month of the ACDG game, it already takes 1+ hour to play only five turns, and that is when all the ministers have posted their orders. Imagine if they have to decide on the spot.

	01-12-2002 19:42									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Just think of the occasions when these articles actually are needed - they're not really that decisive for the game:
1. Diplomatic proposals by the AI: Easily handled by guidelines set by the foreign minister on how to respond.
2. An enemy move makes a planned move of our unit impossible: The pres knows the overall plan, no need to halt the game
3. A wonder is being finished that we also build: Change the queue.
4. A stack of AI units turns up and/or moves towards one of our cities, other unit stack or just inside our borders: That'd be an occassion where it'd would probably be better to stop the game
5. A uncoventional unit has attacked us: Maybe start searching or also halt the game.
6. One of our units is in grave danger if an order was executed: Walk on another route.
7. A goody hut is seen nearby: Go for it or maybe the SMC sets guidelines for that too.
8. Cities riot: Specialist or slider adjustement

That's about all I can think of.

	02-12-2002 00:49									#41
	Remove this text

UPDATE

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article: The Executive Branch


1. General Contents

(a) The members of the Executive Branch are called ministers and the positions in the Exective Branch are called ministerial offices or executive offices.
(b) Any citizen become a candidate for an executive office by expressing his desire to in the thread started by the Court as described in Article IV.
(c) An elected minister is charged with the duties explained in this Chapter 2 of this article until the end of the term for which the minister was elected.
(e)The terms for all elected offices last four weeks (28 days). All ministers will remain in office for this period unless they resign or are impeached before the end of it.
(e) If a minister will be unable to perform its duties for some part of the term, this minister has the right to choose a willing citizen as delegate, who will act on his behalf, until further notice from the minister or the end of the position term, whichever is the sooner. This delegate will still be subordinated to the citizen being replaced.
(f) In case of absence of a minister and all of its respectives delegates during the game playing, the president will assume it functions and act in this absent minister behalf.
(g) A minister who expects to have to appoint a delegate for a significant proportion of the term is encouraged to resign.
(h) Every in-game action made or recommended to the President by a minister must be posted to the forum, no matter how insignificant it is.
(i) All resolutions passed by the citizens through a resolution poll declared valid by the Court will be obeyed by all ministers and will overrule all decisions made by ministers in order to make its content part of the game.


2. Government Positions

I. The President
(a) The President shall physically play the game on a regular and scheduled basis whenever possible and post the save and a complete report of the game events to the forum.
(b) The President may use turnchats, turnthreads, or any other method approved by the Court to play the game.
(c) The President must follow the instructions of the Court and Ministers while playing the game unless the instruction is clearly erroneous, or made impossible and/or harmful by changed circumstances. In this case, the President can bring this decision into the vote of resolution poll if the minister doesn’t accept the President opinion therefore halting the game.
(d) The President is in charge of naming all new cities of the empire regardless of how the cities were created or assimilated. Still the President must have this name evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II) after grant the city with the chosen name.
(e) The President is in charge of all the Empire settings and sliders, including Rations, Workday, Wages, Public Works rate and Science rate.
(f) The President has the power over the money reserve. Therefore every money spending decision must have the aproval of the President in order to be act.

II. The Minister of Domestic Affairs
(a) The Minister of Domestic Affairs is responsible for managing all cities. Including their distribution of specialist citizens and production queues, rushed production requests and disbanding of cities.
(b) The Minister of Domestic Affairs can only disband a city after this action be evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).
(c) The action of Rush buy build queue itens will only be perfomed with the aproved by the President.
(d) The Minister of Domestic Affairs is ultimately responsible for the settlers, choosing site for new cities and moving these units to this site.

III. The Minister of Infrastruture
(a) The Minister of Infrastructure is ultimately responsible for the placement of tile improvements, choosing the best tile and the best improvement to place with the current reserve of public workers.

IV. The Minister of Diplomacy and Trade
(a) The Minister of Diplomacy and Trade is responsible for gifts, requests, exchanges and agreements with other nations. Still every proposal or response to a proposal that involves gold spending has to be aproved by the President.
(b) The Minister of Diplomacy and Trade can only propose a gift or an exchange with another civilization three days after this minister start a Official Poll (article III Section 3-II) with this topic for public hearing.
(b) The Minister of Diplomacy and Trade has the control over all unconventional units, except settlers. And this minister may spend gold with the unconventional units orders, but only after the approval of the President.
(c) The Minister of Diplomacy and Trade controls all internal and foreign trade.
(d) The Minister of Diplomacy and Trade controls research. But in choice can only be accopliched three days after being evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).

V. The Minister of Defense
(a) The Minister of Defense controls all units and their orders including the disband order, except settlers and all other unconventional units.
(b)The Minister of Defense may not order any action which would result in a declaration of war without this action first being evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).
(c) The Minister of Defense shall name all armies that he thinks necessary to make easier the discussions.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last edited by Pedrunn on 02-12-2002 at 00:55

	02-12-2002 00:59									#42
	Full PM-box? Change here!

We still need to decide about the game playing if only possible along with a open turn-chat or the president can play by his own following the Ministers guidelines.

Last edited by Pedrunn on 02-12-2002 at 01:07

	02-12-2002 01:03									#43
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Apart from all the stuff I've said before:
All the requirements for official polls are unnecessary limitations. The ministers are after all elected to do something!
In case of war I accept it because that's a grave decision. All the other polls you want to require however are not so important decisions after all. Of course the minister can still poll if he wants to, and citizens can put up a poll with the necessary requirements but this has to be optional. We'll end up voting on so many polls, turnout is going to be low and decision will then be purely random. Only if it's a really controversial issue a poll should be needed and then either a citizen or the minister if he wants to can put it up.

	02-12-2002 01:19									#44
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I dont see that many obligatory official polls.

It is just these few ones that probably will be controversial.

Do you like this city name?
Should I disband this city?
What to research next?
Should I start a war with this civilization?

BTW, I believe we should start a poll on how to handle the game playing tomorrow. I still think the best way is to have a turn-chat while playing the game.

	02-12-2002 01:21									#45
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

well, actually you're right - i just don't like the research one!

And if a turnchat will be required by the constitution we'll certainly limit the progress of the game.

If ever were to be Pres I almost certainly would hold a turnchat maybe every two weeks but inbetween get a few turns done with an order thread for the next few turns (depending on the year we stand at). I certainly don't have time for hours of turnchats every week - not as Pres, nor as minister.

	02-12-2002 12:11									#46
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Pedrunn,

(c) The action of Rush buy build queue items will only be perfomed with the approvel of the President.

The rest I might comment on when I read the other threads.

	02-12-2002 13:35									#47
	Tired of ads?

Finished the rest of the threads, so:

quote: According with the section 5-V.b of this article. The MoD has the control over unit disbanding. Maybe the MoDA can ask the MoD for the unit use for rush buying. Or do you thing the MoDA should have more control over disbanding other than settlers? I think the current way is fine.

It isn't about the MoDA having more control about the dedicated military units, it is:

The SC request 2 units.
The MoDA builds 3, 1 for rushing a project in another city. Should the SC still have this unit, even as he didn't requested it?

I hope you 'understand' my concern......


Mapfi:

Having not enough polls can cause the same, so it works both way's round. But I'll still prefer to have more polls, than afterwards citizens whining: I wasn't able to decide on this.....

Pedrunn:

2.I.d:

Every name through a poll? Why not makiung a thread, where everyone can post a suggestion? When everyone posted one suggestion, we start again......... The Pres. will start from the top and works he's way down....... No poll, no hassle.......Everyone get's his town


add-on for
2.IV.b
You should add the same as for the SC, 2.V.b: The Minister od Diplomacy and Treade may not order any action which would result in a declaration of war without this action first being evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).

Reason: Think of the Slaver, if he is succesful, we are at war with this nation.....

Quick question about disbanding cities:

Who decides what to do with captured cities? I know we had a discussion, but what happened about it?

Lemmy:

No political campaigns in this thread , try to get voters somewhere else........

Mapfi:

That's again the idea of the delegate, if you don't have time your delegate should have, hopefully.

Mapfi (and others):
The minister should always give general advices as well. Only exeption I see, is for city placement. But otherwise??? Same for diplomatic relations. If it is something serious, we should be 'contacted' anyway. But otherwise? (peace treaty.......) General guidelines again.

For running the game:

I haven't played DG online before, so don't know, but in the beginning I don't see so much of a problem there (turnchats...). We should be able to run with the orders posted.


What is your expecation of it anyway? That we'll finish the game in two weeks? I don't really expect (average) more than 5-10 turns per week.

We shouldn't forget that:
a.) some people have only limited online time.
b.) for any reason, some people want to have a normal live (what is this????)
c.) and whatever....

Sorry for having such a long post.......

	02-12-2002 19:48									#48
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch It isn't about the MoDA having more control about the dedicated military units, it is: The SC request 2 units. The MoDA builds 3, 1 for rushing a project in another city. Should the SC still have this unit, even as he didn't requested it? I hope you 'understand' my concern......

I understood what've said and your concern is just that I believe this third unit still should be controlled by the MoD no matter what the MoDA planned. This MoDA plan should be explained before (or after) the building of the third to the MoD and through the MoD the MoDA will make what he has planned. Of course if the MoD dont betray the MoDA
The way you are saying will get things to complicated. And if the MoDA requests and the MoD doesnt make a objection a inocent unit can be disbanded too. Dont see much of a problem in have this kind of relationship among minister to achive a common or individual goal.

quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch 2.IV.b You should add the same as for the SC, 2.V.b: The Minister od Diplomacy and Treade may not order any action which would result in a declaration of war without this action first being evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).

agreed. It will be in the next update.

quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch Having not enough polls can cause the same, so it works both way's round. But I'll still prefer to have more polls, than afterwards citizens whining: I wasn't able to decide on this.....

Believe me, I still think there are too few but those are the only that can be obligatory without loosing the game pace. The rest we can only trust the minister's opinion which is fine to me.

quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch 2.I.d: Every name through a poll? Why not makiung a thread, where everyone can post a suggestion? When everyone posted one suggestion, we start again......... The Pres. will start from the top and works he's way down....... No poll, no hassle.......Everyone get's his town

This was what would happen if the people dont agree with the city chosen name. Remember official polls are just for public hearing therefore the people has to come up with a better name through resolution poll. That was what i thought. But i am afraid this may need a better explanation in the connie

quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch Who decides what to do with captured cities? I know we had a discussion, but what happened about it?

Section 2-II.a
"The Minister of Domestic Affairs is responsible for managing all cities. "

quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch That's again the idea of the delegate, if you don't have time your delegate should have, hopefully. (...) What is your expecation of it anyway? That we'll finish the game in two weeks? I don't really expect (average) more than 5-10 turns per week. (...) Mapfi (and others): The minister should always give general advices as well. Only exeption I see, is for city placement. But otherwise??? Same for diplomatic relations. If it is something serious, we should be 'contacted' anyway. But otherwise? (peace treaty.......) General guidelines again.

Exacly and if anyone shows up the Pres will do what you planned but report the events and his decision in a poll. And i thought (just a thought though) to limit the game to max of 20 turns per week. I think we should decide through a poll after all.
Either way the better the guidelines the faster the game will run. With or without the minister who decided about it. Becase the lesser the discussions. Of course, not as fast as mapfi way .
I just want to make this game more democratic

quote: Originally posted by Gilgamensch We shouldn't forget that: a.) some people have only limited online time. b.) for any reason, some people want to have a normal live (what is this????) c.) and whatever....

Thats Mpfi's biggest agument togther with the time spent in the DG until it end as you must have notest by now.

	02-12-2002 20:34									#49
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: And i thought (just a thought though) to limit the game to max of 20 turns per week.

Heh, no need to limit it to 20 turns, it's pretty much impossible to play that many turns per week, not later in the game, and not in the start either, cos of the continuous exploration at the start, it's hard to plan decisions, and distributing the savegame during a turnsession would take to long.

	02-12-2002 20:50									#50
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Lemmy quote: And i thought (just a thought though) to limit the game to max of 20 turns per week. Heh, no need to limit it to 20 turns, it's pretty much impossible to play that many turns per week, not later in the game, and not in the start either, cos of the continuous exploration at the start, it's hard to plan decisions, and distributing the savegame during a turnsession would take to long.

I would never think in limit anymore. I dont see a good reason why anymore. But why wouuld the savegames distribution take so long time? It could be just a post in a thread.

	02-12-2002 21:34									#51
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It has to be saved, uploaded, then the ministers have to download it, take a look, and decide on what to do next.
Then there will be a discusion among the ministers on what to do next, not everyone may agree with the minister orders. Before they've finally decided what to do, 30 minutes will have passed.

	06-12-2002 19:13									#52
	Remove this text

So Pedrunn, since the poll turns out against forcing turnchats you're ready to give us an update on the article again? Preferably with my suggestions or something similar?

	06-12-2002 19:32									#53
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think, Pedrunn just has to go back to the previous version

Lemmy,

that's the reason why I prefer not to have turnchats, everyone can take his/her time.

Could always happen, just think you are having a serious discussion about a important thing in the DG and your girlfriend/wife/whatever decides to switch off the computer and play with her? What you gonna tell her???????????

	06-12-2002 22:47									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

EDIT: I'm blind this morning

Last edited by H Tower on 06-12-2002 at 22:55

	07-12-2002 07:48									#55
	Remove this text

Can you fix that mapfi i will be out for a couple of day (I hope to be back monday)

	07-12-2002 15:34									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I haven't really been following this discussion and I don't think I will (too busy IRL), but 2 remarks for you guys to think about (these may have been mentioned already - like I said, I haven't been following this):

quote: 1. (f) In case of absence of a minister and all of its respectives delegates during the game playing, the president will assume it functions and act in this absent minister behalf.

1. What happens if the President is absent? Maybe it would be good to define a chain of command. E.g. if the President is unable to perform his duties, the Minister of Defense, Minister of STD, Minster of Domestic Affairs, Minister of Infrastructure or the Supreme Justice will take over, in that order. Something like that...

2. In earlier threads, the option of a veto-right for the President (or the president plus one or more Ministers) was discussed - do we still want that?

I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss this further and work out the details, if needed.

	07-12-2002 16:14									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Chain of command is very important and will be vital for the smooth running of the game.
Maybe the next in command should be the minister with the least amount of workload? So i don't know if the Minister of Defence would be best to be next in line(And maybe he would just wipe all opposition out ).
And i'd still vote for a veto for the President, with whatever conditions people think are best(as long as it doesn't negate the reason for the veto in the first place!).

	08-12-2002 17:55									#58
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I dont like the veto i think the president should use resolution poll like everyone else (thats the way it is in the constitution) but mapfi do want some if the order is clearly wrong although this may be a too subjective.
We should start a poll about it abou i want to finish all.

About the president absence this line will probably drop because it was decided in the votation that the president should play on its own following the ministers guideline and not along a meeting.

I must go now i have almost 100 pages to study to a exam tomorrow. I shouldnt even be here talking to you guys but i couldnt resist

	09-12-2002 00:39									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Ok, since Pedrunn doesn't have time I'm trying to write an update. So go ahead - raise your voices...
(Changes to the last update in bold)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article: The Executive Branch


1. General Contents

(a) The members of the Executive Branch are called ministers and the positions in the Exective Branch are called ministerial offices or executive offices.
(b) Any citizen become a candidate for an executive office by expressing his desire to in the thread started by the Court as described in Article IV.
(c) An elected minister is charged with the duties explained in this Chapter 2 of this article until the end of the term for which the minister was elected.
(e)The terms for all elected offices last four weeks (28 days). All ministers will remain in office for this period unless they resign or are impeached before the end of it.
(f) If a minister will be unable to perform its duties for some part of the term, this minister has the right to choose a willing citizen as delegate, who will act on his behalf, until further notice from the minister or the end of the position term, whichever is the sooner. This delegate will still be subordinated to the citizen being replaced.
(f) deleted
(g) A minister who expects to have to appoint a delegate for a significant proportion of the term is encouraged to resign.
(h) Every in-game action made or recommended to the President by a minister must be posted to the forum, no matter how insignificant it is.
(i) All resolutions passed by the citizens through a resolution poll declared valid by the Court will be obeyed by all ministers and will overrule all decisions made by ministers in order to make its content part of the game.


2. Government Positions

I. The President
(a) The President shall physically play the game on a regular and scheduled basis whenever possible and post the save and a complete report of the game events to the forum.
(b)The President is encouraged to use turnchats, turnthreads, or any other similar method while playing the game.
(c) The President must follow the instructions of the Court, the Ministers and their delegates while playing the game and doesn't hold any veto powers unless specifically named in the constitution. If an instruction is clearly erroneous, or by changed circumstances made impossible or harmful the President may decide in the best interest of the game.
(d) In case of missing orders for a whole turn from a minister and all his delegates the President may not play on.
(e) The President is in charge of naming all new cities of the empire regardless of how the cities were created or assimilated. A name has to be evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II) before a city is named.
(f) The President is in charge of all the Empire settings and sliders, including Rations, Workday, Wages, Public Works rate and Science rate.
(g) The President has the power over the money reserve. Therefore every money spending decision must have the approval of the President in order to be act.

II. The Minister of Domestic Affairs
(a) The Minister of Domestic Affairs is responsible for managing all cities. Including their distribution of specialist citizens and production queues, rushed production requests and disbanding of cities.
(b) The Minister of Domestic Affairs can only disband a city after this action be evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).
(c) The action of Rush buy build queue items will only be perfomed with the President's approval.
(d) The Minister of Domestic Affairs is ultimately responsible for settlers, choosing site for new cities and moving these units to this site.

III. The Minister of Infrastruture
(a) The Minister of Infrastructure is ultimately responsible for the placement of tile improvements, choosing the best tile and the best improvement to place with the current reserve of public workers.

IV. The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science
(a) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science is responsible for gifts, requests, exchanges and agreements with other nations. Any paying of gold has to be approved by the President.
(b) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science can only propose a gift or an exchange with another civilization three days after this minister start a Official Poll (article III Section 3-II) with this topic for public hearing.
(b) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science has the control over all unconventional units, except settlers. Spending gold with the unconventional units orders has to be approved by President. Any action which would result in a declaration of war has to be evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).
(c) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science controls all internal and foreign trade.
(d) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science controls research. But in choice can only be accopliched three days after being evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).

V. The Minister of Defense
(a) The Minister of Defense controls all units and their orders including the disband order, except settlers and all other unconventional units.
(b)The Minister of Defense may not order any action which would result in a declaration of war without this action first being evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).
(c) The Minister of Defense shall name all armies that he thinks necessary to make easier the discussions.

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Now I don't like the need for polls in two cases in the ministry for diplomacy, trade and science because I think that minister can almost do nothing at all on his own. I'd scrap the polling requirement for gifts and for science.
Gifts without getting anything back could be made with the approval of the pres, exchanges should be in power of the minister. Science will certainly always be discussed but no need to poll every decision in research - we don't poll the slider either which is much more important. So my proposal here:

IV
(b) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science can only propose a gift to another civilization or give in to a demand of tribute with the approval of the president.
(d) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science controls research.

	09-12-2002 10:46									#60
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question about 2. I(d)

Why does the president have to wait for an order from the minister to play the game? I can understand why he should wait for orders from the ministers, of reasonable time. God forbid though, a minister goes AWOL and doesn't have a delegate, the game would come to a halt for a very long time. I think that if the Pres feels comfortable with playing on for one more session without a report, that should be ok